Ford tried to save our manufacturing plants: Mullaly

[GCRXR6]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Your're new here, arnt ya?

Ouch

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by imugli

I still can't get over all thes people saying Focus / Kuga would have saved the Oz factory... The key is efficiency. Broadmeadows simply does not have the capacity to build as many units as the Thai factory (which produces a total of 250,000 units per year). When you have a factory, you have to pay to keep the lights running, the generators running, the lines running. It's a lot easier to pay the bills when you're ammortising those costs over 250,000 units, as opposed to even 40,000 or 50,000. It's like a supermarket. They have to have the fridges, freezers etc and a certain amount of lighting on 24/7, so that becomes easier to pay if you can have paying customers in the store for more hours of the day.

Focus and Kuga wouldn't have saved the factory because FoA still wouldn't have been able to produce enough to cover the costs of running the plant AND making a profit, while being able to sell the things at a price the public would pay for them. Sure, you may have a profitable factory, but would you pay 30 or 35k for a BASE Focus just to keep the factory running? I don't think so. And if that's the case, and you'd only pay $20k (which is what they're going for ATM) the factory would still be losing money and we'd still be in the situation we're in.

Companies can handle higher labour costs (look at Germany), but add that to higher energy costs, higher costs for materials and a lower volume to ammortise them over and you're in trouble.

Focus and Kuga were not the straw that broke this camel's back.

If Ol' Mate Johnny Eyebrows didn't sign the FTA between Australia and Thailand we probably would be building the Focus here for our market and maybe Honda would still be importing their Japanese made cars rather than their Thailand rubbish.

I remember when they where first talking about the change over from the WS Fiesta to the Thailand made WT Fiesta and how it was all going to be the same just it was going to be cheaper than the German made WS.

The Thailand sourced WT has a low quality dash, odd sized 185/55R15 tyres and different stud pattern wheels amongst a few other things which seemed to move backwards.

Everything that comes out of Ford Thailand is junk and I won't buy anything that rolls out of that factory.

Same with the Thailand sourced Honda Civics, I helped in replacing the bottom end in brand new cars in 2010 because they fitted a wrong bearing during the bottom end build.

Is our 2016 Mustang coming from there too?

Same with Ford South Africa, there is a big difference in build quality from a German made XR5 to the South African made normal model Focus.

Give it 15 years, the Thailand and Chinese workers will start pushing for higher wages for a western lifestyle rather than getting a pack of rice for a months work doing 32 hours a day, 9 days a week shifts.

[robertjp]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

If Ol' Mate Johnny Eyebrows didn't sign the FTA between Australia and Thailand we probably would be building the Focus here for our market and maybe Honda would still be importing their Japanese made cars rather than their Thailand rubbish.

I remember when they where first talking about the change over from the WS Fiesta to the Thailand made WT Fiesta and how it was all going to be the same just it was going to be cheaper than the German made WS.

The Thailand sourced WT has a low quality dash, odd sized 185/55R15 tyres and different stud pattern wheels amongst a few other things which seemed to move backwards.

Everything that comes out of Ford Thailand is junk and I won't buy anything that rolls out of that factory.

Same with the Thailand sourced Honda Civics, I helped in replacing the bottom end in brand new cars in 2010 because they fitted a wrong bearing during the bottom end build.

Is our 2016 Mustang coming from there too?

Same with Ford South Africa, there is a big difference in build quality from a German made XR5 to the South African made normal model Focus.

Give it 15 years, the Thailand and Chinese workers will start pushing for higher wages for a western lifestyle rather than getting a pack of rice for a months work doing 32 hours a day, 9 days a week shifts.

Then they will look for somewhere else to manufacture, the cycle of global business.

[WILDB]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Everything that comes out of Ford Thailand is junk and I won't buy anything that rolls out of that factory.

I'm going to correct you on that - the Ranger is sourced from Thailand and it is arguably one of the best vehicles Ford makes, the LW2 Focus is also very good too - light years ahead of the South African made Focus'.

Yes, quality was an issue when production of the Fiesta first shifted - but those days are long gone. Those vehicles still have less warranty claims than Falcon and Territory.

[WILDB]

Originally Posted by monte.b

Seems to me that there is lots of ford dealers or sales persons on this thread

I'm most certainly not a salesman, but I am a new car buyer - I have owned several Australian made Fords and loved them, but I personally find the imported models suit my needs much better these days.

The Australian motoring public obviously think the same thing.

Does that make me less of a Ford fan, just because I don't own a Falcon? I think not. I'm actually a person (perhaps a rarity around here) who actually has driven every model that is sold locally and actually likes all of these models - I'm also a big fan of their foreign models too.

Too many people don't seem to realize that there are other models in the Ford line up than the Falcon and these models are fantastic cars.

[westy73]

I know I am going to be accused of being a knuckle dragging muppet however I will just say this about the demise of the Falcon......here goes.

Lest we forget the Falcon was booming in sales when the President was Geoff Polites. Indeed he also oversaw the brilliant Territory and when the plans were released for it he even derided an engineer, at a funeral mind you, of why on earth it didn't have a diesel !!
He was president and so so passionate about Ford and Ford Australia. In particular the brilliant design of the BA and Territory. Then in September 2004 when he was replaced by Tom Gorman for me is when the rot set in. Here we replaced the quintessential Aussie who was so passionate for 'our' Falcon and made it work when sales were already flagging from the AU debacle. To replace him with an American with absolutely zero interest and knowledge of our market is when it started the slow decline.

I have said it many times before passion and passion for your product does deliver if you back up that passion with proper marketing campaigns and true and proper investment. Geoff Polites showed it could be done.

So for me I truly believe the writing has been on the wall since Geoff left and with the successive replacement of Presidents of Ford OZ with Tom Gorman, Bill Osborne (struth this was a waste of time), Marin Burela and now Robert Graziano (even more a waste of time) the blame for me is firmly with Ford. They never really truly wanted manufacturing in OZ and once the ever passionate Geoff Polites left I believe the slow and stealthy decline of manufacturing and sales of the Falcon has been made that little bit easier.

Markets and market fads come and go and when we suddenly realise we all want a Falcon again well suck it up because you decided to buy the import over the local so you get what you deserve. No amount of Ford politcal spin will convince me otherwise from Alan Mulally or anyone that the series of Presidents of Ford OZ has been completely directionless since Sep 2004. WE ALL speak of lack of advertising of the Falcon over the last decade and WE ALL know diesel should have been in Terry from the get go. Rant stops now. Huff Huff Huff.

[Gadgetman]

Originally Posted by monte.b

Seems to me that there is lots of ford dealers or sales persons on this thread

Yup, I am one. But I make comments based on my experience. Have you driven the range daily like i have for a prolonged period before making the statements you have? I doubt it. To knock a Mondeo or an ST just cause they are front wheel drive, says to me that you have no idea on what driving experience is. Bet you didnt know you can get lift off oversteer in an ST. You probably dont cause you havent driven one!

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by Gadgetman

Yup, I am one. But I make comments based on my experience. Have you driven the range daily like i have for a prolonged period before making the statements you have? I doubt it. To knock a Mondeo or an ST just cause they are front wheel drive, says to me that you have no idea on what driving experience is. Bet you didnt know you can get lift off oversteer in an ST. You probably dont cause you havent driven one!

Off topic.
I experienced this the other day, was a weird but awesome sensation.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by munners

My thoughts exactly. Some of the posts in this thread are not only wildly inaccurate but childish and embarrassing as well.

I was surprised that Alan Mulally and co were here, that speaks volumes to me about how they feel about our market. These guys are the top of Ford management, there is no one higher. They felt it was important enough to fly all the way down to be here in person and still we get muppets on this forum complaining that they wanted to hear more Australian speakers! Seriously? If we only had Australian speakers I bet people would complain that "someone from head office should get down here and explain things!" I think the significance of their visit has been lost on some people, but they are the same ones who now hate Ford and will never buy another Ford blah blah blah...

Get over it.

Face facts. The Falcon was a good car but simply not good enough to survive. That's all there is to it. It isn't what people want to buy anymore. If it was then they would still be selling in big numbers and Ford would still be making them.

For those complaining about Alan Mulally I recommend getting a copy of "American Icon: Alan Mulally and the Fight to Save Ford Motor Company" and reading it (don't worry, it has some pictures)

It might just change a few peoples minds.

Munners

Love your work mate.
Alan Mulally is a bit of a hero to me, not just for what he has done for Ford worldwide, but for what he did previously too.
He literally is known as the "father of the 777" both as head engineer and later boss of Boeing commercial aircraft. The reason as to why the 777 is by far one of the passenger favorites is because under Alan, he got all the top airlines together and asked them for input into its design. This was a first for any airplane manufacturer and is also the reason as to why the 777 is the safest aircraft in the sky - 2 hull losses unrelated to the airframe (Air Asiana - pilot error, and BA - Trent FOHE).

He took the consultative approach to Ford too and as a result, we now have the only motor company in the USA to not take a bailout and topping the sales charts with cars people want to buy, as well as continual profits.

[LeadFoot81]

Originally Posted by westy73

I know I am going to be accused of being a knuckle dragging muppet however I will just say this about the demise of the Falcon......here goes.

Lest we forget the Falcon was booming in sales when the President was Geoff Polites. Indeed he also oversaw the brilliant Territory and when the plans were released for it he even derided an engineer, at a funeral mind you, of why on earth it didn't have a diesel !!
He was president and so so passionate about Ford and Ford Australia. In particular the brilliant design of the BA and Territory. Then in September 2004 when he was replaced by Tom Gorman for me is when the rot set in. Here we replaced the quintessential Aussie who was so passionate for 'our' Falcon and made it work when sales were already flagging from the AU debacle. To replace him with an American with absolutely zero interest and knowledge of our market is when it started the slow decline.

I have said it many times before passion and passion for your product does deliver if you back up that passion with proper marketing campaigns and true and proper investment. Geoff Polites showed it could be done.

So for me I truly believe the writing has been on the wall since Geoff left and with the successive replacement of Presidents of Ford OZ with Tom Gorman, Bill Osborne (struth this was a waste of time), Marin Burela and now Robert Graziano (even more a waste of time) the blame for me is firmly with Ford. They never really truly wanted manufacturing in OZ and once the ever passionate Geoff Polites left I believe the slow and stealthy decline of manufacturing and sales of the Falcon has been made that little bit easier.

Markets and market fads come and go and when we suddenly realise we all want a Falcon again well suck it up because you decided to buy the import over the local so you get what you deserve. No amount of Ford politcal spin will convince me otherwise from Alan Mulally or anyone that the series of Presidents of Ford OZ has been completely directionless since Sep 2004. WE ALL speak of lack of advertising of the Falcon over the last decade and WE ALL know diesel should have been in Terry from the get go. Rant stops now. Huff Huff Huff.

Holden (in spite of it's own rogues gallery of CEOs) has never taken it's foot off the gas... spending hundreds of millions on local sedans, utes, wagons, LWB luxo barges, V8 this that and the other and spent big on advertising, be it TV, radio, internet, AFL, rugby, V8 Supercars. HSV have done the same and have reached a pinnacle of sorts with the HSV GTS, a hero car for HSV and Holden.

How do you explain then, the fall in Holden's Commodore based sales with so much passion and dollars spent?

I don't believe someone of Polites' ilk could have saved Ford from the situation it found itself in.

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by ltd

Love your work mate.
Alan Mulally is a bit of a hero to me, not just for what he has done for Ford worldwide, but for what he did previously too.
He literally is known as the "father of the 777" both as head engineer and later boss of Boeing commercial aircraft. The reason as to why the 777 is by far one of the passenger favorites is because under Alan, he got all the top airlines together and asked them for input into its design. This was a first for any airplane manufacturer and is also the reason as to why the 777 is the safest aircraft in the sky - 2 hull losses unrelated to the airframe (Air Asiana - pilot error, and BA - Trent FOHE).

He took the consultative approach to Ford too and as a result, we now have the only motor company in the USA to not take a bailout and topping the sales charts with cars people want to buy, as well as continual profits.

This.

As an aviation nut as well, I believe Mulally was the person who is mainly responsible for the success that the 777 has become. The 777 is my favourite aircraft type to fly on.

I was disappointed that he left Boeing for Ford, but that man is almost single handedly responsible for Ford's turn around. I can see the similarities between the "Working Together" 777 program and the One Ford program, in that his philosophy was to get every department, from aeronautical engineers to maintenance engineers to pilots to aerodynamicists to customers to interior designers, to work as one team on the plane, consolidating various departments and interests into one.

Similarly, 'One Ford' is about consolidating the various different products Ford has across the world, often in similar categories, into one, creating a unified product line-up. Ford were probably one of the few manufacturers in the world with such disparate offerings across different countries and regions. Under One Ford, Mondeo and Fusion became one car; Escape and Kuga became one car; and there was no longer a North American version of the Focus.

Mulally may be a businessman, but he's a damn good one. Without him, Ford may well have had to dip into the US Government's handout program. Ford are in a much better position now than they were before he took the helm.

The survival of Ford is more important to me than the survival of Falcon, or Territory, or even local manufacturing. As long as I still have a Ford to buy, I'm happy.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by ltd

Love your work mate.
Alan Mulally is a bit of a hero to me, not just for what he has done for Ford worldwide, but for what he did previously too.
He literally is known as the "father of the 777" both as head engineer and later boss of Boeing commercial aircraft. The reason as to why the 777 is by far one of the passenger favorites is because under Alan, he got all the top airlines together and asked them for input into its design. This was a first for any airplane manufacturer and is also the reason as to why the 777 is the safest aircraft in the sky - 2 hull losses unrelated to the airframe (Air Asiana - pilot error, and BA - Trent FOHE).

He took the consultative approach to Ford too and as a result, we now have the only motor company in the USA to not take a bailout and topping the sales charts with cars people want to buy, as well as continual profits.

Well. They didn't take a bailout it the full sense. It's fairer to say that they were the only one of the big three to not declare bankruptcy.

Ford however - just before the GFC - were in serious trouble when Mulally took on the job, and he and other exec's put the plan together and brought it before the banks, and bet the farm, including rights to the Ford name for about 25 billion dollars. This steered them on the right course, and through hard work Mulally got the company back to health, and paid off all the debt.

I think that with some of that same hard work however, a way to make manufacturing here in Aus viable could have been found. It's a shame that it was just cut loose, while they may have been the best decision from the head... preserving their heritage here would have been the best from the heart.



Falcon is the victim in all this. And it's a great car with a great history that brought me to the brand... but the brand is just another brand to me now, and I can now see the good and bad in all brands. I might even develop a passion for Chrysler, they have a respectable past of innovation, and they make lots of passionate vehicles today.

[monte.b]

Originally Posted by Gadgetman

Yup, I am one. But I make comments based on my experience. Have you driven the range daily like i have for a prolonged period before making the statements you have? I doubt it. To knock a Mondeo or an ST just cause they are front wheel drive, says to me that you have no idea on what driving experience is. Bet you didnt know you can get lift off oversteer in an ST. You probably dont cause you havent driven one!

Well ive got one bloke telling me there is absolutely no salespeople here and one suddenly pops up ,funny that,however mr salseman tell me this ,what are they going to replace the falcon ute with ,one of those rough riding imported piles of rubbish that have seats that break your back and the springs just dont seem to work ,how about towing a van or a good boat outfit with your front wheel drive beauty ,be great having a trailer on over the gap with a bit of water on the road ,front wheels slipping cause no weight on the front ,how do i know this ,ive seen it on a camray and the ford will be the same ,they are just around town cars ,very pretty but useless

[Road_Warrior]

Dude, just stop already.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by imugli

I still can't get over all thes people saying Focus / Kuga would have saved the Oz factory... The key is efficiency. Broadmeadows simply does not have the capacity to build as many units as the Thai factory (which produces a total of 250,000 units per year). When you have a factory, you have to pay to keep the lights running, the generators running, the lines running. It's a lot easier to pay the bills when you're ammortising those costs over 250,000 units, as opposed to even 40,000 or 50,000. It's like a supermarket. They have to have the fridges, freezers etc and a certain amount of lighting on 24/7, so that becomes easier to pay if you can have paying customers in the store for more hours of the day.

Focus and Kuga wouldn't have saved the factory because FoA still wouldn't have been able to produce enough to cover the costs of running the plant AND making a profit, while being able to sell the things at a price the public would pay for them. Sure, you may have a profitable factory, but would you pay 30 or 35k for a BASE Focus just to keep the factory running? I don't think so. And if that's the case, and you'd only pay $20k (which is what they're going for ATM) the factory would still be losing money and we'd still be in the situation we're in.

Companies can handle higher labour costs (look at Germany), but add that to higher energy costs, higher costs for materials and a lower volume to ammortise them over and you're in trouble.

Focus and Kuga were not the straw that broke this camel's back.

The factory which build the Focus in Thailand only builds 30,000 cars a year, with Australia the biggest market for the vehicle. Its annual capacity is 150,000 and cost 450 million. Australia was attractive to Detroit as it could build a similar amount of vehicles a year here in the existing Falcon and Territory plant while saving almost half a billion dollars. But anyway a decision was made locally to reverse the engine plant closure and cancel Focus and Kuga.

Australia looks to be picking up a new vehicle though, it looks like Toyota will move Rav4 production to Altona.

[WILDB]

Originally Posted by monte.b

what are they going to replace the falcon ute with ,one of those rough riding imported piles of rubbish that have seats that break your back and the springs just dont seem to work

It's called the Ford Ranger and you clearly haven't driven one making ill informed and frankly ignorant comments like that.

Originally Posted by monte.b

ive seen it on a camray

I've never heard of a Camray before, can you enlighten us as to what one is?

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by WILDB

It's called the Ford Ranger and you clearly haven't driven one making ill informed and frankly ignorant comments like that.

... and it was designed right here in Australia.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by monte.b

Well ive got one bloke telling me there is absolutely no salespeople here and one suddenly pops up ,funny that,however mr salseman tell me this ,what are they going to replace the falcon ute with ,one of those rough riding imported piles of rubbish that have seats that break your back and the springs just dont seem to work

Well, the very comfortable and capable Ranger will (and has) already got that covered...with its 1528kg payload and best-in-class 3500kg towing capacity...a brilliant show of our Australian expertise...

Originally Posted by monte.b

,how about towing a van or a good boat outfit with your front wheel drive beauty ,be great having a trailer on over the gap with a bit of water on the road ,front wheels slipping cause no weight on the front ,how do i know this ,ive seen it on a camray and the ford will be the same ,they are just around town cars ,very pretty but useless

I see a lot of SUV's and pick-ups towing said loads, in fact, just a Taree last week the boat ramp did not have one falcon or commodore there...

...And guess what, the new Aussie designed and engineered Ranger based SUV will tow a fair few Jaycos.

A quick look on some caravanning and boating forums show that people are happy with their Camry's as tow rigs...but suggest the use of a Weight Distribution Hitch...

There is more choice out there...

[Ford_The_Win]

Originally Posted by monte.b

Well ive got one bloke telling me there is absolutely no salespeople here and one suddenly pops up ,funny that,however mr salseman tell me this ,what are they going to replace the falcon ute with ,one of those rough riding imported piles of rubbish that have seats that break your back and the springs just dont seem to work ,how about towing a van or a good boat outfit with your front wheel drive beauty ,be great having a trailer on over the gap with a bit of water on the road ,front wheels slipping cause no weight on the front ,how do i know this ,ive seen it on a camray and the ford will be the same ,they are just around town cars ,very pretty but useless

[Gadgetman]

Originally Posted by DJM83

Off topic.
I experienced this the other day, was a weird but awesome sensation.

If you havent spun it around, you havent pushed hard enough. Toughen up DJM83 and go to mode 3 where all aids are off!

[monte.b]

Originally Posted by NX74205

... and it was designed right here in Australia.

How do we know that to be true ,i reckon once the ford factories are closed they will just shaft all 1100 or so in the design room ,why would they keep people employed here to design cars that are built elsewhere as we are not competitive with other countries ,they will get designers in asia for $2 a day and a bowl of rice ,that will just be as good as ours ,as for the genius that said what is a camary well thats a Camry with a few jims before it ,not much humor on here is there ,you just have to agree with the ford dealers or you are a moron,that knows nothing about cars ,gees lighten up a bit you blokes

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by monte.b

Well ive got one bloke telling me there is absolutely no salespeople here and one suddenly pops up ,funny that,however mr salseman tell me this ,what are they going to replace the falcon ute with ,one of those rough riding imported piles of rubbish that have seats that break your back and the springs just dont seem to work ,how about towing a van or a good boat outfit with your front wheel drive beauty ,be great having a trailer on over the gap with a bit of water on the road ,front wheels slipping cause no weight on the front ,how do i know this ,ive seen it on a camray and the ford will be the same ,they are just around town cars ,very pretty but useless

You've obviously not sat in a Ranger lately....

Buyers who tow prefer SUVs, the market has chosen SUV over large sedan years ago.

The majority of tow vehicles these days are either dual cab Utes or SUVs with most being efficient diesels.

[monte.b]

Well i will take a ranger for a test drive just to show im not a complete fool ,but we traveled from Maryborough to Glenwood swap today and i did take notice of the cars towing vans,most were heading south ,getting a bit hot for them here i guess ,but half were falcon or territories so i dont know what these people are going to use in the future ,nothing like the room and quality ride in one of our own ,anyway im done here ,said my bit and hope you all have a nice day ,beautiful day here about 28deg

[janddbone]

In defense of the comments about the Ranger seats and springs, this model in MUCh improved, however the old ones were some of the WORST you could ever ride on...

[MyAU1]

Originally Posted by WILDB

I'm going to correct you on that - the Ranger is sourced from Thailand and it is arguably one of the best vehicles Ford makes, the LW2 Focus is also very good too - light years ahead of the South African made Focus'.

Yes, quality was an issue when production of the Fiesta first shifted - but those days are long gone. Those vehicles still have less warranty claims than Falcon and Territory.

I think you might find there are a few organisations in OZ ( no, not GMH ) who might disagree with you over the Ford Ranger being 'arguably' one of the best vehicles Ford makes. You might want to also check the US Ford website, which no longer has the Ranger available.

[MyAU1]

Originally Posted by WILDB

It's called the Ford Ranger and you clearly haven't driven one making ill informed and frankly ignorant comments like that.



I've never heard of a Camray before, can you enlighten us as to what one is?

Before submitting replies like this you may want to do a little research yourself on the organisations that 'really drive' these American styled trucks. Ranger's cannot handle being driven hard.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by MyAU1

Before submitting replies like this you may want to do a little research yourself on the organisations that 'really drive' these American styled trucks. Ranger's cannot handle being driven hard.

Probably because it's not designed with that in mind.
Do you own a Ranger?
And what does it matter Ford US doesn't have ranger listed? Last time I checked we live in OZ.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by MyAU1

I think you might find there are a few organisations in OZ ( no, not GMH ) who might disagree with you over the Ford Ranger being 'arguably' one of the best vehicles Ford makes. You might want to also check the US Ford website, which no longer has the Ranger available.

What are these "organizations" you speek of? No use making a claim without substance...

Ranger isn't sold in the US because it is to similar to the F-series...and it woild have to built there as there is a prohibitive tax on imports that are in the same segment as a US manufactured product.

[monte.b]

Originally Posted by Nikked

What are these "organizations" you speek of? No use making a claim without substance...

Ranger isn't sold in the US because it is to similar to the F-series...and it woild have to built there as there is a prohibitive tax on imports that are in the same segment as a US manufactured product.

Interesting post ,pity this country is so stupid as to not have taxes or tariffs on imports the same as the good old usa ,we just accept any old rubbish they want to bring in and according to this thread, love them

[Moby Vic]

Uh ... prohibitive tax on imports to the US? Since when?

Cheap imports have been outselling domestically produced vehicles here for decades. And remember that Ford has closed many, many plants in the US and Canada over the last 25 years.