Bloody Councils and their fines

[BHDOGS]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

This is not really relevant to anything here. As you were clearly illegally parked, as the OP here possily was legally parked, and that is what is being discissed.

Unless of course there a sign saying it was ok to park there at 12:30 at night? But I doubt it.

Thank you for that xb gs i ofcourse was speaking in a common sence approach to the law but as you have pointed out all laws are there to be followed at all times to the letter no matter what the circumstances so thank you for that Zig hail all salute kim jong ill

[XDV800]

Always good to hear of a win for the little guy. Local Councils are a joke at times aren't they.

I did a job for QR once in inner city Brisbane, down a quiet back street with no parking signs on a distinct zone about 4 spaces long so that the access to the rail line wasn't blocked by public parking and there is room to park QRInfrastructure vehicles instead.
Parked there as instructed and took the digger off and did some digging round the corner down near the line, took no longer than 40 minutes, rolled the digger back on the truck, packed up, got in the truck, and low and behold, one of those council parasites had ticketed me for illegal parking!!! ***** couldn't even assess the situation and put 2 and 2 together, just slap another cit with a quota maker.

Fair dinkum they are some brain dead morons that come down from those ivory towers sometimes.

[shedcoupe]

In a certain S/W WA city (okay, it was Bunbury) I once got a ticket for parking a motorcycle in a car space.
Went to the ranger's office and had a bleat and got let off (to their credit), but the parking signs referred to 'vehicles' - is a motorcycle not a vehicle ???
Their argument was that there are park spaces specifically for m/c's (but not many and far apart) - my argument was that congestion should be minimised, and that once I was in a car space, there was room for other bikes.
Did a bit of lobbying but didn't get far.
Now when I see some poor bloke doing what I did, I have to say "ooohhh waaahhh, mummy will say that you're a naughty boy and give you a spanking" or words to that effect.

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by Rodp

How many properties would you expect to extend onto tarred roadway? I don't believe the fine is unreasonable given that the property line is not physically marked with any sort of boundary and that the car is parked into oncoming traffic on a tarred roadway.

The error was pointed out, the ranger is now aware of the invisible boundary and that mistake by that ranger won't be made again. If it were my property, I'd park the car facing the other direction from now on to avoid the same thing happening again.

I agree, Im sure the issue could have been resolved without the chest beating and bravado that Landau Stable has gone on with here. Most likely he has made himself a target for future inspections on other fronts with the council.

More to the point, it looks like a roadway to me and indeed many others here who have looked at the pic, any one driving up there would think that too, in view of that a safety minded personwould park the car facing the right direction regardless, yes it is important, especially at night to do that.


You might win this battle with the council, but wouldnt want to be in your shoes if someone did drive into your car and get seriously injured if your parked car is deemed to be a factor.

The parking officer should have checked out the situation? perhaps, but you expect the officer to go back to chambers retrieve the certificate of title etc for every car they intend giving a ticket to that day, totally unrealistic.

Basically, you could have prevented yourself wasting time, the officer involved and all the other people in council if you had have just done the community minded thing in the first place and have parked it around the other way.

[XDV800]

Originally Posted by sudszy

I agree, Im sure the issue could have been resolved without the chest beating and bravado that Landau Stable has gone on with here. Most likely he has made himself a target for future inspections on other fronts with the council.

More to the point, it looks like a roadway to me and indeed many others here who have looked at the pic, any one driving up there would think that too, in view of that a safety minded personwould park the car facing the right direction regardless, yes it is important, especially at night to do that.


You might win this battle with the council, but wouldnt want to be in your shoes if someone did drive into your car and get seriously injured if your parked car is deemed to be a factor.

The parking officer should have checked out the situation? perhaps, but you expect the officer to go back to chambers retrieve the certificate of title etc for every car they intend giving a ticket to that day, totally unrealistic.

Basically, you could have prevented yourself wasting time, the officer involved and all the other people in council if you had have just done the community minded thing in the first place and have parked it around the other way.

You Sir, sound like good parking inspector material, go and sign up and be with the rest of your kind...

[gcg2503]

Originally Posted by yzfr101

You Sir, sound like good parking inspector material, go and sign up and be with the rest of your kind...

+1

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by yzfr101

You Sir, sound like good parking inspector material, go and sign up and be with the rest of your kind...

Playing the man and not the argument infringement.

[xtremerus]

Originally Posted by sudszy

The parking officer should have checked out the situation? perhaps, but you expect the officer to go back to chambers retrieve the certificate of title etc for every car they intend giving a ticket to that day, totally unrealistic.

But they should know what is public area and which is private land. The officer has access to that material, so it is their job to know these things , before booking people

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by xtremerus

But they should know what is public area and which is private land. The officer has access to that material, so it is their job to know these things , before booking people

How does a parking officer on the beat have access to that? or do you expect them to know every title and its boundaries that look like they are part of regular roadways, you are dreaming.

I honestly cant believe how many of you want to beat up on authorities for simply doing their job making sure of law and order in the streets, has this mistake cost any lives? all it would have taken Landau Stable was a simple letter asking that the matter be reviewed as it appears that the officer wasnt aware of the unusual situation, but no the govco/council conspiracy theorists have stepped into overdrive.

[xxx000]

Originally Posted by sudszy

How does a parking officer on the beat have access to that? or do you expect them to know every title and its boundaries that look like they are part of regular roadways, you are dreaming.

I honestly cant believe how many of you want to beat up on authorities for simply doing their job making sure of law and order in the streets, has this mistake cost any lives? all it would have taken Landau Stable was a simple letter asking that the matter be reviewed as it appears that the officer wasnt aware of the unusual situation, but no the govco/council conspiracy theorists have stepped into overdrive.

spot on Sudszy, the guy's made a large mountain out of a molehill

[Matty4]

Originally Posted by sudszy

...I honestly cant believe how many of you want to beat up on authorities for simply doing their job making sure of law and order in the streets...

And that's it in a nutshell. He wasn't doing his job making sure of law and order, he simply took a stab in the dark that there may be an infringement there and slapped one on the car, without knowing if there was an actual infringement or offence.

If he wasn't sure, he should have let it go and done some research and came back next time armed with the correct infringement (if there was one, in this case there wasn't) or not come back at all.

Too many of those who enforce the law are far too quick to pull the trigger (metaphorically speaking here) without actually knowing the law and then just hoping and praying that they aren't found wanting with their knowlegde of the laws they are paid to enforce...and that those people will just cop it on the chin and not challenge it

[Landau Stable]

Sudszy, what sort of moron are you? Seriously. Chest beating and bravado? have you not read what i posted? Apart from being furious over the issue of the fine, did i ever mention actually blowing up at council? The lady on the phone got a spray when she tried to palm me off. All other times were calm and polite. The officer who apologised extended her hand to me and i shook it. I was annoyed with what she caused, yet i was man enough to accept her aplogoy without acting like a child. Who the hell are you to say suggest that tone with me?

Secondly, the ranger had the ability to photograph the car, check with her superiors, and then issue a fine if i was in breach. how many laneways do you see like this? What part of this implied they need to check back with office on every fine? To state that her behaviour was acceptable based on this is pathetic.The ranger was aware that the building further up the road had an extended boundary. She told me so herself. Hence it was her mistake not to use her brains and do the checks.

As for not being in my shoes if there is an accident? What part of PRIVATE PROPERTY do you not understand? Are you that stupid? Is there anyone telling you which way to face when you park in your driveway? I have 4 metres from the wall of my workshop. I can park a damn Mini sideways there if i so please, and i am perfectly within the law and my rights to do so as the property belongs to ME!

Now, as for where it all stands now? I have recieved a letter from the SDRO, telling me that council have corresponded with them. It states that council has reviewed the issuing of the fine as correct, but have decided to issue me a caution instead. Excuse me? So now i have to threaten them with legal action for putting a mark against my name. Why do i have to do so? Well we are all human. we all make mistakes. Sooner or later my number will come up and i will make an error of judgement on the road. A good cop would let you off for that. But once he checks your record and sees a pattern of previous cautions or warnings, it suddenly becomes a ticket. A ticket i would not have recieved until being branded as a bad/habitual trouble maker. Do i still deserve this for parking on MY property?

Furthermore, I have seen a lot of your dribble in a lot of other posts, Sudszy. I have not been compelled to comment in the past, but when you start sprouting your crap here, i will not let it slide unnoticed. Thank Christ you don't run this country, because it would be run like a dictatorship where individuality is squashed, and all government bodies are law, judge and executioner. I have the right in this country to ensure that any fines or cautions which are wrongfully given to me, are removed without fear of council backlash and special attention. Do me a favour, and never stain any thread of mine again. Better yet, do all of us a favour and get back under the rock from which you crawled. All other members, despite their flare ups and arguments, have been willing to see the other persons side in one way or another. You are unable to do so at all, and are a disgrace to this great site. Basically, you are a troll. The sooner you are removed, the better.

[Stefan]

Stop beating around the bush and tell us how you really feel.

[Dave3911]

Now, as for where it all stands now? I have recieved a letter from the SDRO, telling me that council have corresponded with them. It states that council has reviewed the issuing of the fine as correct, but have decided to issue me a caution instead. Excuse me? So now i have to threaten them with legal action for putting a mark against my name.

Can you elaborate any more on this Landau? Possibly my initial reading of this looks like it might have some basis?

[93EB_SXR6]

Originally Posted by Landau Stable

Sudszy, what sort of moron are you? Seriously. Chest beating and bravado? have you not read what i posted? Apart from being furious over the issue of the fine, did i ever mention actually blowing up at council? The lady on the phone got a spray when she tried to palm me off. All other times were calm and polite. The officer who apologised extended her hand to me and i shook it. I was annoyed with what she caused, yet i was man enough to accept her aplogoy without acting like a child. Who the hell are you to say suggest that tone with me?

Secondly, the ranger had the ability to photograph the car, check with her superiors, and then issue a fine if i was in breach. how many laneways do you see like this? What part of this implied they need to check back with office on every fine? To state that her behaviour was acceptable based on this is pathetic.The ranger was aware that the building further up the road had an extended boundary. She told me so herself. Hence it was her mistake not to use her brains and do the checks.

As for not being in my shoes if there is an accident? What part of PRIVATE PROPERTY do you not understand? Are you that stupid? Is there anyone telling you which way to face when you park in your driveway? I have 4 metres from the wall of my workshop. I can park a damn Mini sideways there if i so please, and i am perfectly within the law and my rights to do so as the property belongs to ME!

Now, as for where it all stands now? I have recieved a letter from the SDRO, telling me that council have corresponded with them. It states that council has reviewed the issuing of the fine as correct, but have decided to issue me a caution instead. Excuse me? So now i have to threaten them with legal action for putting a mark against my name. Why do i have to do so? Well we are all human. we all make mistakes. Sooner or later my number will come up and i will make an error of judgement on the road. A good cop would let you off for that. But once he checks your record and sees a pattern of previous cautions or warnings, it suddenly becomes a ticket. A ticket i would not have recieved until being branded as a bad/habitual trouble maker. Do i still deserve this for parking on MY property?

Furthermore, I have seen a lot of your dribble in a lot of other posts, Sudszy. I have not been compelled to comment in the past, but when you start sprouting your crap here, i will not let it slide unnoticed. Thank Christ you don't run this country, because it would be run like a dictatorship where individuality is squashed, and all government bodies are law, judge and executioner. I have the right in this country to ensure that any fines or cautions which are wrongfully given to me, are removed without fear of council backlash and special attention. Do me a favour, and never stain any thread of mine again. Better yet, do all of us a favour and get back under the rock from which you crawled. All other members, despite their flare ups and arguments, have been willing to see the other persons side in one way or another. You are unable to do so at all, and are a disgrace to this great site. Basically, you are a troll. The sooner you are removed, the better.

I love you work Landau Stable.

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by Landau Stable

did i ever mention actually blowing up at council?

Well yes, you did!

Originally Posted by Landau Stable

At this point i blew up and gave her a spray. I told her that it is their job to make sure i am doing the wrong thing in the first place, ..........NOT going to wear a fine every single day until the SDRO tells them to bugger off.

Originally Posted by Landau Stable

As for not being in my shoes if there is an accident? What part of PRIVATE PROPERTY do you not understand? Are you that stupid? Is there anyone telling you which way to face when you park in your driveway? I have 4 metres from the wall of my workshop. I can park a damn Mini sideways there if i so please, and i am perfectly within the law and my rights to do so as the property belongs to ME!

Trying to do you a favour here. Just because it is private property doesnt give you a "get out of jail" free card if something happens. Your area is obviously not fenced off to the public, you have responsibility to make sure that there are not features in there where people could injured.

Im not a legal expert, and it would appear neither are you, however, a good personal injuries lawyer or prosecutor may indeed point to aspects like how the area was being used as a roadway etc and to the public was to all intentions a roadway and has been used as such for x years etc....or that they saw the front of your car and were confused and should have gone to the left of it etc, perhaps consult a personal injuries lawyer and get them to paint up some scenarios for you.

Originally Posted by Landau Stable

Furthermore, I have seen a lot of your dribble in a lot of other posts, Sudszy. I have not been compelled to comment in the past, but when you start sprouting your crap here, .

Well perhaps it would be no surprise that you think what you think of my posts given your apparent disregard for the safety of others, and your stooping to personal abuse and name calling:

Originally Posted by Landau Stable

Sudszy, what sort of moron are you? .

that you have touted in this post.


You hopefully posted this tale of woe to get people's opinions on what to do etc, but you dont want to hear another point of view

[gcg2503]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Well perhaps it would be no surprise that you think what you think of my posts given your apparent disregard for the safety of others

So because his property is not fenced off he has an "apparent disregard for the safety of others"

Does this mean I need to fence off any properties that I may own?

Am I exposing myself to litigation?

Should I seek legal counsel?

You appear to be clutching at straws with the safety call.....

[aussie muscle]

i suppose now the council will paint a line along the front of your laneway, at a cost of a few thousand dollars of course!

[BAxtER]

Is it just me or in Melbourne do these councils seem like body corps?? Didnt realise these councils have CEO's and CFO's that are on 300k+ a year and are asking for rate rises?? Coming from brisbane this was a huge shock to me.

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by BAxtER

Is it just me or in Melbourne do these councils seem like body corps?? Didnt realise these councils have CEO's and CFO's that are on 300k+ a year and are asking for rate rises?? Coming from brisbane this was a huge shock to me.

Er.. um... they are all like this.
The CEO used to be called the Town Clerk... however you cant pay a TownClerk $300000, but a CEO demands more money because of his tittle.

Townsvilles CEO gets over $330 000 per yr, more then the Prime Minister of this country!

All councils are run as a corporate entity....

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by gcg2503

So because his property is not fenced off he has an "apparent disregard for the safety of others"

I think I was more than crystal clear, but you want to build a strawman?

The issue isnt whether he has fenced off his property or not, but how that property presents itself to members of the public who unwittingly step upon it or venture near it.

For those that dont already understand that parking vehicles on the wrong side of a road or what reasonably looks to be part of a road, is a hazard(no, its just not just about which direction you drive off in after), then any extra txt from me would be futile.

[FgNewbie]

Originally Posted by gcg2503

*snip*
Does this mean I need to fence off any properties that I may own?

Am I exposing myself to litigation?
*snip*

I made sure my insurance policy included public liability and stipulated on the policy that a portion of the land was used as a roadway. (Unless you read the signs you would think it was another public road).

From memory, I may be preaching to the choir

[Rodp]

Seems to me this could have been avoided if the roadway was clearly marked as private property. To me it's ridiculous to assume that a parking officer should have to go into records to check boundaries of properties prior to issuing an infringement notice for a car that would otherwise be illegally parked.

[Matty4]

Originally Posted by Landau Stable

Sudszy, what sort of moron are you? Seriously. Chest beating and bravado? have you not read what i posted? Apart from being furious over the issue of the fine, did i ever mention actually blowing up at council? The lady on the phone got a spray when she tried to palm me off. All other times were calm and polite. The officer who apologised extended her hand to me and i shook it. I was annoyed with what she caused, yet i was man enough to accept her aplogoy without acting like a child. Who the hell are you to say suggest that tone with me?

Secondly, the ranger had the ability to photograph the car, check with her superiors, and then issue a fine if i was in breach. how many laneways do you see like this? What part of this implied they need to check back with office on every fine? To state that her behaviour was acceptable based on this is pathetic.The ranger was aware that the building further up the road had an extended boundary. She told me so herself. Hence it was her mistake not to use her brains and do the checks.

As for not being in my shoes if there is an accident? What part of PRIVATE PROPERTY do you not understand? Are you that stupid? Is there anyone telling you which way to face when you park in your driveway? I have 4 metres from the wall of my workshop. I can park a damn Mini sideways there if i so please, and i am perfectly within the law and my rights to do so as the property belongs to ME!

Now, as for where it all stands now? I have recieved a letter from the SDRO, telling me that council have corresponded with them. It states that council has reviewed the issuing of the fine as correct, but have decided to issue me a caution instead. Excuse me? So now i have to threaten them with legal action for putting a mark against my name. Why do i have to do so? Well we are all human. we all make mistakes. Sooner or later my number will come up and i will make an error of judgement on the road. A good cop would let you off for that. But once he checks your record and sees a pattern of previous cautions or warnings, it suddenly becomes a ticket. A ticket i would not have recieved until being branded as a bad/habitual trouble maker. Do i still deserve this for parking on MY property?

Furthermore, I have seen a lot of your dribble in a lot of other posts, Sudszy. I have not been compelled to comment in the past, but when you start sprouting your crap here, i will not let it slide unnoticed. Thank Christ you don't run this country, because it would be run like a dictatorship where individuality is squashed, and all government bodies are law, judge and executioner. I have the right in this country to ensure that any fines or cautions which are wrongfully given to me, are removed without fear of council backlash and special attention. Do me a favour, and never stain any thread of mine again. Better yet, do all of us a favour and get back under the rock from which you crawled. All other members, despite their flare ups and arguments, have been willing to see the other persons side in one way or another. You are unable to do so at all, and are a disgrace to this great site. Basically, you are a troll. The sooner you are removed, the better.

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by Landau Stable

Secondly, the ranger had the ability to photograph the car, check with her superiors, and then issue a fine if i was in breach. how many laneways do you see like this? What part of this implied they need to check back with office on every fine? To state that her behaviour was acceptable based on this is pathetic.The ranger was aware that the building further up the road had an extended boundary. She told me so herself. Hence it was her mistake not to use her brains and do the checks.

As for not being in my shoes if there is an accident? What part of PRIVATE PROPERTY do you not understand? Are you that stupid? Is there anyone telling you which way to face when you park in your driveway? I have 4 metres from the wall of my workshop. I can park a damn Mini sideways there if i so please, and i am perfectly within the law and my rights to do so as the property belongs to ME!

Now, as for where it all stands now? I have recieved a letter from the SDRO, telling me that council have corresponded with them. It states that council has reviewed the issuing of the fine as correct, but have decided to issue me a caution instead. Excuse me? So now i have to threaten them with legal action for putting a mark against my name. Why do i have to do so? Well we are all human. we all make mistakes. Sooner or later my number will come up and i will make an error of judgement on the road. A good cop would let you off for that. But once he checks your record and sees a pattern of previous cautions or warnings, it suddenly becomes a ticket. A ticket i would not have recieved until being branded as a bad/habitual trouble maker. Do i still deserve this for parking on MY property?

Hang on...step back a little bit...the council has decided they were right to fine you?? If this is YOUR property as you state, you can't get a fine and the council would have to withdraw it.

It's starting to sound like it's not your property at all, and the extended boundary is only relevant to the building up the road, and not you...unless I've misunderstood some portion of your comment...??

[Landau Stable]

Originally Posted by Sezzy

Hang on...step back a little bit...the council has decided they were right to fine you?? If this is YOUR property as you state, you can't get a fine and the council would have to withdraw it.

It's starting to sound like it's not your property at all, and the extended boundary is only relevant to the building up the road, and not you...unless I've misunderstood some portion of your comment...??

I think you have misunderstood it mate. Council have told me the property is mine. I'd say it's more a matter that they are too proud and pig headed to admit they were wrong and withdraw it properly. To them, this must be how they try and save face. Hence i will need to threaten them with legal action, as it now means i have an official caution against my name.

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by Landau Stable

I think you have misunderstood it mate. Council have told me the property is mine. I'd say it's more a matter that they are too proud and pig headed to admit they were wrong and withdraw it properly. To them, this must be how they try and save face. Hence i will need to threaten them with legal action, as it now means i have an official caution against my name.

Okay, that's messed up...

Hope you clear it up, diplomatically of course

[Landau Stable]

Originally Posted by Sezzy

Okay, that's messed up...

Hope you clear it up, diplomatically of course

A friend of mine who is a solicitor will ensure that i get a very diplomatic, yet forceful point across.

[MattSAU2XR8]

Originally Posted by Rodp

Seems to me this could have been avoided if the roadway was clearly marked as private property. To me it's ridiculous to assume that a parking officer should have to go into records to check boundaries of properties prior to issuing an infringement notice for a car that would otherwise be illegally parked.

On the other hand, the burden of proof really should rest with the complainant.

Imagine if a cop just looked at you driving past doing your own thing and said 'I think that guy is speeding and his car doesn't look to good from here, possibly unroadworthy, and he might not be registered and what the hell he's probably drunk, and for all I know he could have some stolen goods in the boot and his catalytic convertor has been gutted, so I'll just post him a bunch of tickets and hope that a few of them stick'.

It probably wasn't such a big deal that the council whacked a ticket on this particular car, only that they were too arrogant to properly consider Landau Stable's perfectly reasonable objection to the fine.

Also, the fact that the car is NEAR a road does not mean it has to be facing the same was as traffic. Consider a car parked in a driveway near to the front of a property - it's at 90 degrees to both traffic directions!

[NickyN]

Originally Posted by Rodp

Seems to me this could have been avoided if the roadway was clearly marked as private property.

Yes, clearly marked boundaries would have avoided all of this. Landau Stable already knew he had a setback (but wasn't sure exactly how much) and now he clearly knows (and it's in writing) that his property extends 4M into the roadway because of his setback. The next question is who's responsibility is it to mark this boundary? This is something council either overlooked or neglected, so at whatever cost, they (whoever does this painting) need to take care of this at whatever expense.

Originally Posted by sudszy

I agree, Im sure the issue could have been resolved without the chest beating and bravado that Landau Stable has gone on with here. Most likely he has made himself a target for future inspections on other fronts with the council.

The parking officer should have checked out the situation? perhaps, but you expect the officer to go back to chambers retrieve the certificate of title etc for every car they intend giving a ticket to that day, totally unrealistic.

Basically, you could have prevented yourself wasting time, the officer involved and all the other people in council ....

Chest beating and bravado? That's not what it sounds like to me. Imo, Landau stood up for himself and questioned council about the fine. He has every right to do so. Seems not many would do but he did which I'm pretty sure surprised whoever he contacted. So instead of just dropping the fine now they are going to issue a citation which is still a mark against his name in good standing. What would you do? Would you have let it slide and just pay the fine and go on your business? Or, knowing what he knew about his extended boundary would you not have made your point?

Sorry, but I don't believe it's your place to make judgment and decide he wasted his time and the time of everyone else involved. Just because they're council doesn't give them the right to do whatever they please, they are still accountable for their actions. You'd take action on something if it meant enough to you.

Originally Posted by Matty4

Too many of those who enforce the law are far too quick to pull the trigger (metaphorically speaking here) without actually knowing the law and then just hoping and praying that they aren't found wanting with their knowlegde of the laws they are paid to enforce...and that those people will just cop it on the chin and not challenge it

Exactly, and Landau Stable challenged council, something council prob hoped wouldn't happen.

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

i suppose now the council will paint a line along the front of your laneway, at a cost of a few thousand dollars of course!

Of course! It's something that council neglected so it should be taken care of.