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#91 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2010
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Quote:
Joe, unfortunately you have mixed up profit on an investment, compared to profit from revenue. The previous threads have been in regards to what profit Ford OZ has (and will) reap from its investments (spending on capital equipment etc) in australia. In the article, it is talking about the profit mazda and hyundai derive from their sales. More than likely, the overseas head office, sells the cars to the local offshoots (making a profit on their investments overseas) , who then sell the car for a (nother) profit, here in australia. As australian sales probably dont account for a great deal of these companies production, then they are far more likely to chase market share, than to worry too much about a large percentage of profit from the revenue (as long as its a profit). In fact, it is very common for large strong companies to carry out predatory pricing (selling at a loss), to destroy the competitors. |
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#92 | ||||
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Quote:
It does look as though they can make more money in designing than they can in manufacturing but surely they go hand in hand. If it came to the point were manufacturing was to cease then would there be a case to continue having a design studio (without local manufacturing) in Australia? As you said Ford obviously know more than we do. They are the ones who determine if they are acheiving the required return on investment and if local manufacturing is worthwhile. One would assume though that with the current exchange rate the Ford imports should be making money, but again that is an assumption. I hadn't mentioned Holden but now that you mention it Ford's profit of 13 Million in 2009 really made up for the 274 million loss in the previous year (as well as the 3 other losses it made before that) and must be of great releif to them. On a side note I thought we might reflect on some comments from Marin Burela from only 6 months ago. http://www.theaustralian.com.au/busi...-1225863311745 Quote:
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#93 | |||
VFII SS UTE
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Central Coast
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Quote:
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I don't often hear the sound of a screaming LSX. But when I do, So do the neighbours.. GO SOUTHS
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#94 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Think all the desirable models dealers can't get their hands on readily. Pretty soon, most affordable cars in this region will be built in Thailand or Korea, Asian car makers pick the cheapest countries to build vehicles and Ford is becoming just like the rest of them...... Last edited by jpd80; 10-11-2010 at 08:06 AM. |
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#95 | |||
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So Holdens exports are useless to Holden using your line of thinking!! But hey, I'll just shut up now, becuase I dont know what I'm talking about & get back to my day job.. Which just so happens to be in accounting!! |
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#96 | |||
Pity the fool
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Quote:
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Fords I own or have owned: 1970 XW Falcon GT replica ![]() Proud to buy Australian and support Ford Australia through thick and thin |
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#97 | |||
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Join Date: Feb 2010
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Quote:
whooooaaaaa talk about sliding from one story to another. You were quoting what poor profits hyundai and mazda OZ were making on their sales, to what profits Ford OZ were making on their investments. Completely different. If you get 5% on a $100 million factory investment, you make $5 million a year. If you get 5% on 10,000 sales of a $10,000 car, you get $5 million. One investment requires $100 million to make the profit, the other in theory (and yeah i know it doesnt work that way in reality), requires the same $10,000 being used over and over again. So now you've gone back to Holden. Well I think Holdens own statements prove that their exports are useless in trying to run a sustainable company (not losing money). They merely seek these markets to keep cars going thru the factory. No one is seeking you shut up, its a public forum (where people are allowed to express their opinion). But in consideration for the company you work for, if you spent more time on these forums, and less time doing their accountancy, then i think it would be best for the company if you spent more time in the forums. |
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#98 | |||
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There's only about 16 countries in the world capable of developing vehicles from scratch. I'm so glad Australia is one of the few.... |
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#99 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Quote:
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#100 | ||
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Ford and Holden have about $2 Billion to $2.5 billion in sales of local products,
the fact that both turn tiny losses in comparison to the overall figures tells me that the money is being worked out very carefully. Not suggesting anything illegal is going on but it is possible to transfer some costs back to other centres. Eg, Holden's Mexican V8 engines could well be made dearer to keep profit in Mexico. It's not hard to see how supply from other areas could see the profit redirected to other places. |
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#101 | ||
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Well of course for an operation the size of a car manufacturer, you would need to engage in some creative accounting to make sure all of your operational arms and business units share the burden so that one project or business unit doesn't look like one big massive fail. Like the $800 Million spent on developing the FG for example: some of that development cost went into tooling and plant upgrades. So the costs are not just spread out over the lifecycle of a particular product, they are amortised into fixed assets in the plant as well.
Getting back to budget allocations and the T6 program, another net result of those funds being allocated, having been expenditure from Ford's global budget, is that it was allocated to FoA and contributed to FoA's cash flow - I don't think that cash flow contribution can be underestimated when talking about the bottom line.
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Fords I own or have owned: 1970 XW Falcon GT replica ![]() Proud to buy Australian and support Ford Australia through thick and thin |
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#102 | |||
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Join Date: Feb 2010
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Quote:
And thats exactly what they do JPD. Toyota got pinged for this from the tax office just this year, thus part of the reason for its loss http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...257758001172B8 If toyota australia buy a hybrid engine from toyota japan to put into a locally made product, they will want to make the most profitable part of the transaction to happen in the lowest taxed country. If low taxes in japan, they will slug oz for a higher price for the engine (making smaller or no profit in australia, and bigger in japan). It is illegal, but the ATO doesnt have the resources to verify all the activities, and especially how to determine the true cost of something. And sometimes the ATO employ accountants, who have no idea what they are doing. |
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#103 | |||
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Quote:
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#104 | |||
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If the profit transfer is done with subtle hand, a few thousand profit per car can be shifted quite easily and dare say legally... That's why I really wonder some times that the profit/loss quoted is more about locals getting more government assistance....but maybe I'm cynical. Interiors are supplied from China, who says we don't get charged a higher price for Falcon and Commodore while Chinese Fords and Buicks sourcing similar interiors get bulk discounts in a complex profit swap worked out in board rooms and accountants dens.... Lots of other Chinese parts go into Ford and Holden as well.... |
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#105 | |||
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Quote:
that 's $700 million that stays here and a portion of that is also now paid by Mazda for the BT50. If Mazda paid like $300 million, then Ford have done amazingly well..... |
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#106 | |||
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Quote:
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#107 | |||
Pity the fool
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Quote:
__________________
Fords I own or have owned: 1970 XW Falcon GT replica ![]() Proud to buy Australian and support Ford Australia through thick and thin |
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#108 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
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"Ford engineers lacked the maturity of design experience to successfully complete the project..." No wondering why those T6 mules had a awfully rough BT50 front plastered on them, it was a red hot dig back at Mazda's engineers for being as the Kiwis say, prucks.... |
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#109 | |||
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BA2 XR8 Rapid M6 Ute - Lid - Tint -18s 226.8rwkW@178kmh/537Nm@140kmh 1/9/2013 14.2@163kmh 23/10/2013 Boss349 built. Not yet run. Waiting on a shell. Retrotech thread http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...1363569&page=6 |
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#110 | |||
Pity the fool
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Quote:
__________________
Fords I own or have owned: 1970 XW Falcon GT replica ![]() Proud to buy Australian and support Ford Australia through thick and thin |
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#111 | |||
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Ok guys, to break things up a little, I thought I would post some interesting figures.
Figures are YTD October 2010. Quote:
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#112 | ||
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Just curious, in Falcon what is BASE - 2,917
Are they fleet cars, or basics sent elsewhere for completion or conversion? |
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#113 | ||
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Not sure. Could be BF3 wagons?
Also interesting to note the FPV sales. I am guessing that the V8 buyers have been holding out for the 5.0 since the turbos have outsold the V8's so far this year. Last edited by naddis01; 11-11-2010 at 09:20 PM. |
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#114 | ||
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Naddis, you have 1116 Falcon and Commodores going to not for profit. I would have thought that all falcons and commodores were made not for profit (only joking).
You would think the only categories they arent getting screwed down on prices would be the small fleet and private sales. That leaves falcon with 11908 (48%) and commodore with 22421 (58%) in this category, whereas the mazda 6 has 6074 (92%) in this category. Some of those numbers certain would make one think before launching an extensive advertising campaign to try and woo the general buying public. |
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#115 | |||
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Quote:
and about 3,000 more mid and high series. That's a interesting puzzle to know whether those Omega sales are worth it, but Ford would be chuffed if they could sell another 12,000 XTs into fleets. Maybe Ecoboost will open up Govt. 4 cylinder only and CO2 sensitive fleet sales |
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#116 | |||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
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Daniel |
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#117 | |||
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#118 | ||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
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Well they better make extras as there will be a Christmas shut down.
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#119 | |||
Pity the fool
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And rightly so, they're horrible, horrible cars.
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Fords I own or have owned: 1970 XW Falcon GT replica ![]() Proud to buy Australian and support Ford Australia through thick and thin |
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#120 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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since there are quite a few down days scheduled between now and Christmas, I'd say the numbers aren't all that flash but we'll see soon enough..... |
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