February 2018 VFACTS: Honda booms as Holden slumps

[jpd80]

FOA actually used "One Ford" and its Asian supply chain to keep Falcon alive for a lot longer than expected.

How quickly we forget that Tom Gorman was ready to close engine production and import V6
before Marin Burella had that decision reversed...so that Territory carried the production load.

Once Ford called it a day, the speed at which Holden's local manufacturing plan collapsed
says to me that all the extra billions spent over there added zero to a viable business plan.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by jpd80

FOA actually used "One Ford" and its Asian supply chain to keep Falcon alive for a lot longer than expected.

How quickly we forget that Tom Gorman was ready to close engine production and import V6
before Marin Burella had that decision reversed...so that Territory carried the production load.

Once Ford called it a day, the speed at which Holden's local manufacturing plan collapsed
says to me that all the extra billions spent over there added zero to a viable business plan.

Interesting subject, I always interpreted the V6 reversal as the moment Ford's Australian manufacturing fate was sealed. I consider that Tom Gorman announced the imported engine strategy at a time when Ford was still committing billions to Australia's production capacity and had plans to produce the Focus here. I believe Tom still actually intended to produce a Falcon (in some form) beyond FG and having an imported powertrain gave it a much better business case by pulling a heap of R&D expenditure out of the existing engine program and getting rid of the costs associated with running a second plant by just crating them in.

Then a couple of years later, Ford suddenly reversed their Australian Focus production plans and reversed the engine plant decision. Lots of celebration, but it seemed ominous what was really happening. Instead of throwing big dollars at re-engineering the Falcon to take an international powertrain and updating the production line to suit, they've said stuff it- leave it as is, tweak the existing engine so it stays compliant and keep the plant running for a few more years, then once the platform is end of life we'll shutter Australian production altogether. Aligns with the reversal of their plans to manufacture Focus here which was announced around the same period.

I think One Ford kept the Falcon alive in its traditional configuration a little longer only for the purpose of euthanising it.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

Interesting subject, I always interpreted the V6 reversal as the moment Ford's Australian manufacturing fate was sealed..

Agree. I don't know what plans were already on place regarding australian manufacture, but the stay of execution for Geelong signed the death warrant. It was always going to shut from that day on.

Whether it would have shut anyway, we'll never know.

[hackney]

Originally Posted by Fordman1

I think Fiesta is a gonna.

You do not see many new ones(if any) on dealer lots.Ford I do not think they will commit to bringing it in,real shame it is one of the best driving small cars on the market.Funny market in Aus,in the UK it has been #1 for decades.Cheers

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

Interesting subject, I always interpreted the V6 reversal as the moment Ford's Australian manufacturing fate was sealed. I consider that Tom Gorman announced the imported engine strategy at a time when Ford was still committing billions to Australia's production capacity and had plans to produce the Focus here. I believe Tom still actually intended to produce a Falcon (in some form) beyond FG and having an imported powertrain gave it a much better business case by pulling a heap of R&D expenditure out of the existing engine program and getting rid of the costs associated with running a second plant by just crating them in.

Then a couple of years later, Ford suddenly reversed their Australian Focus production plans and reversed the engine plant decision. Lots of celebration, but it seemed ominous what was really happening. Instead of throwing big dollars at re-engineering the Falcon to take an international powertrain and updating the production line to suit, they've said stuff it- leave it as is, tweak the existing engine so it stays compliant and keep the plant running for a few more years, then once the platform is end of life we'll shutter Australian production altogether. Aligns with the reversal of their plans to manufacture Focus here which was announced around the same period.

I think One Ford kept the Falcon alive in its traditional configuration a little longer only for the purpose of euthanising it.

the story behind Focus production was that Ford was looking to shore up production
but were only looking for a third of the investment Holden spent on Cruse ($450 M)
The government offered Ford something like $30 M to manufacture Focus in Australia
but after the Territory export brick walls went up in Asia, Ford knew that it couldn't
Export Focus there. FAPA had already asked for it to be moved to Thailand anyway.

At the same time that deal was falling apart, problems arose with the V6 retrofit,
the V engine was too wide and too tall necessitating work on the inner spring aprons
and adding the XR-8 bonnet bulge, things were looking pretty grim until someone
ran a simulation on Emissions Software being used to develop the T6 Ranger and found
that the I-6 could be made Euro 4 compliant, the imported V6 was not needed.

It was that "leave things as they are" that allowed the Falcon to survive, the V6 was the
slippery slope to closing Geelong engine years earlier. The $30 m available for Focus
was then changed to $23 M to Fund euro IV emission compliance for the I-6.

If Ford hadn't convinced the government to co-fund the FG, it would have been a BF III like
the Stationwagon. Can't remember the exec but he flew overseas to convince the PM to fund it.

[minheim]

Originally Posted by hackney

You do not see many new ones(if any) on dealer lots.Ford I do not think they will commit to bringing it in,real shame it is one of the best driving small cars on the market.Funny market in Aus,in the UK it has been #1 for decades.Cheers

I think the DCT auto woes killed its reputation here along with the Focus. Even changing the transmission in the new Focus hasn't revived sales. Maybe in the UK and Europe the extra manual tranny sales have played a role in Fiesta's success there.

[hackney]

Originally Posted by minheim

I think the DCT auto woes killed its reputation here along with the Focus. Even changing the transmission in the new Focus hasn't revived sales. Maybe in the UK and Europe the extra manual tranny sales have played a role in Fiesta's success there.

Most people buy manual trans in the UK.(fact) it accounts for the majority of their sales.Why any would want an “auto” Fiesta is beyond me.Cheers

[russellw]

Originally Posted by minheim

I think the DCT auto woes killed its reputation here along with the Focus. Even changing the transmission in the new Focus hasn't revived sales. Maybe in the UK and Europe the extra manual tranny sales have played a role in Fiesta's success there.

There is little doubt that those issues and the attention they received here contributed strongly to the Focus sales slump. Let's also not forget that between July 2000 and the end of 2014, the Laser / Focus averaged well over 1,000 unit sales a month (1,212). The average since then has been 549 per month.

The Fiesta has had a more chequered history but the impact has been similar. Back when it was the Japanese sourced Festiva, sales averaged 1,221 per month with a peak of 2,530. During the period (199-2002) when the Ford category entrant was the (unloved) kA, that average plummeted to 140 per month but returned to the ~650 per month mark when Fiesta was introduced and maintained that average through until the latter part of 2014. Since then, the average has been below 250 a month and only 115 / month for the last year.

Originally Posted by jpd80

Mustang.....492 (That must be 16,000 sold in Australia since Jan 2016).

16,426 since they first went on sale to be precise.

Cheers
Russ

[hackney]

Originally Posted by russellw

There is little doubt that those issues and the attention they received here contributed strongly to the Focus sales slump. Let's also not forget that between July 2000 and the end of 2014, the Laser / Focus averaged well over 1,000 unit sales a month (1,212). The average since then has been 549 per month.

The Fiesta has had a more chequered history but the impact has been similar. Back when it was the Japanese sourced Festiva, sales averaged 1,221 per month with a peak of 2,530. During the period (199-2002) when the Ford category entrant was the (unloved) kA, that average plummeted to 140 per month but returned to the ~650 per month mark when Fiesta was introduced and maintained that average through until the latter part of 2014. Since then, the average has been below 250 a month and only 115 / month for the last year.



16,426 since they first went on sale to be precise.

Cheers
Russ

They where produced by KIA(under licence from Mazda,for the Australian market)in South Korea.Cheers

[Adamz Ghia]

Originally Posted by minheim

I think the DCT auto woes killed its reputation here along with the Focus. Even changing the transmission in the new Focus hasn't revived sales. Maybe in the UK and Europe the extra manual tranny sales have played a role in Fiesta's success there.

The amount of people who have traded their Focus for another brand is crazy. No wonder sales have tanked. I did everything I could to get Mum to go to another brand but she likes her Focus so when a buy back is sorted she’ll be in another one.

[jpd80]

New Focus is reportedly 50mm longer in the wheelbase and not unlike a Mazda 3,
that would suggest Ford has finally got a clue in terms of rear legroom.

[Brazen]

Was at a Mazda dealer today with a relative buying a new car, it was packed. You literally had to wait in line to look at a CX5. Beautiful cars though.

[jpd80]

There's a reason Mazda sold 9,900 vehicles last month,
Ford should be over there taking notes...

And then go buy a magnifying glass and a torch and prove us all wrong..

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by jpd80

There's a reason Mazda sold 9,900 vehicles last month,
Ford should be over there taking notes...

And then go buy a magnifying glass and a touch and prove us all wrong..

Mazda have nailed the wants of the Australian market. The looks, the quality, the interior presentation. Their ride, steering and handling are seen as too sharp for Asian and North American tastes but they are bang-on for most Aussies.

But it does come down to presentation and interior quality, I think many have decided they want the car as soon as they open the door.

[mike_nofx]

Originally Posted by jpd80

There's a reason Mazda sold 9,900 vehicles last month,
Ford should be over there taking notes...

And then go buy a magnifying glass and a touch and prove us all wrong..

Bought a new Mazda CX3 for the wife last year, they really are great cars.

The small cars from Ford are just really not exciting at all. Not that any FWD hatch/SUV is, but the offerings from Ford are especially bland.

I literally have not heard anyone say they would love to buy a Focus/Fiesta or whatever other small white goods Ford sells these days, as they often say of Toyota’s or Mazda’s for example.

[jpd80]

And you know which Ford car will be a close match for CX-3?

Fiesta Active, the crossover Fiesta we won't ever see in Australia..

Figures hey...

[kevino]

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

Bought a new Mazda CX3 for the wife last year, they really are great cars.

The small cars from Ford are just really not exciting at all. Not that any FWD hatch/SUV is, but the offerings from Ford are especially bland.

I literally have not heard anyone say they would love to buy a Focus/Fiesta or whatever other small white goods Ford sells these days, as they often say of Toyota’s or Mazda’s for example.

I bought a LZ focus in February last year.
Done 46000kms no issues at all averages 5.2,fuel consumption mainly highway work. Brilliant highway car eats kilometres.
I probably got it 8 k cheaper than your CX3.
I don't see the love for CX3 just looks like a jacked up Mazda 2 but hey each to his own.

[mike_nofx]

Originally Posted by kevino

I bought a LZ focus in February last year.
Done 46000kms no issues at all averages 5.2,fuel consumption mainly highway work. Brilliant highway car eats kilometres.
I probably got it 8 k cheaper than your CX3.
I don't see the love for CX3 just looks like a jacked up Mazda 2 but hey each to his own.

That’s because it is a jacked up Mazda 2. Well there’s more to it obviously, but that’s the gist of it really. It’s a 2.0 and nicer and more roomy inside than the 2, but what she wanted was a small city car and that’s what it is, with slightly better vision than a lower hatch.

Negotiated $25k drive away for a brand new 2017 Maxx which has the alloys, touch screen with GPS, reverse camera etc I’ve cracked under 6L/100km but averages a tad higher with her city driving. Everything is easy to use, buttons are where they should be for ease of use, just a nice car to drive.

How much did you pick the Focus up for? I, along with the rest of Australia don’t see the love for the Focus, but hey each to their own!

[lovford]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Was at a Mazda dealer today with a relative buying a new car, it was packed. You literally had to wait in line to look at a CX5. Beautiful cars though.

Got to a checkout the other day, and there was 15 people before me. Solution, throw my basket of shopping on the floor and walk out. Better things to do than wait for bad service.

[arronm]

This is an option. When I buy cars from the car yard I request the salesman bring the car to my work for inspection and test drive.

I never wait in line for shopping. I get the wife to do it.

[lovford]

Originally Posted by arronm

This is an option. When I buy cars from the car yard I request the salesman bring the car to my work for inspection and test drive.

I never wait in line for shopping. I get the wife to do it.

Your mot very nice, I like helping my misses with lugging all the **** back to car. It might pay dividends later, especially if I cook and do the dishes, and clean the toilet. But after all that work Im knackered. That might be half her plan.

[Adamz Ghia]

Originally Posted by lovford

Tell them to fck off and bring the fkn car to your house. No fkn way do I wait in line anywhere. Got to a checkout the other day, and there was 15 people before me. Solution, throw my basket of shopping on the floor and walk out. Better things to do than wait for bad service.

So you’d have to go shopping twice, to save time instead of waiting at a checkout?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by lovford

Your mot very nice, I like helping my misses with lugging all the **** back to car. It might pay dividends later, especially if I cook and do the dishes, and clean the toilet. But after all that work Im knackered. That might be half her plan.

Or lock you in the garage with an old stinky diesel spewing out fumes....

[hackney]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Or lock you in the garage with an old stinky diesel spewing out fumes....

I will “second” that! Any other “taker’s”? Cheers

[hackney]

Originally Posted by lovford

Got to a checkout the other day, and there was 15 people before me. Solution, throw my basket of shopping on the floor and walk out. Better things to do than wait for bad service.

If all checkouts are full,how can that be bad service? Some body help me out with this one is it me or is it him just being a “Tool” Cheers

[kevino]

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

That’s because it is a jacked up Mazda 2. Well there’s more to it obviously, but that’s the gist of it really. It’s a 2.0 and nicer and more roomy inside than the 2, but what she wanted was a small city car and that’s what it is, with slightly better vision than a lower hatch.

Negotiated $25k drive away for a brand new 2017 Maxx which has the alloys, touch screen with GPS, reverse camera etc I’ve cracked under 6L/100km but averages a tad higher with her city driving. Everything is easy to use, buttons are where they should be for ease of use, just a nice car to drive.

How much did you pick the Focus up for? I, along with the rest of Australia don’t see the love for the Focus, but hey each to their own!

It was a demo trend with 5500kms on it. $18250 last February when the Trend was 23 or 24.


What was your rationale for buying a CX3 over a Mazda 3???


I would probably buy a Mazda 3 base model now over a Focus as Ford,s premium pricing policy ie 3 k more for a Trend over a base Mazda 3 ****es me off.
In fact their whole premium pricing policy over their whole range except Fiesta (which is now hugely out of date and not up to par on engine performance and interior specs)makes me cranky.

[mike_nofx]

Originally Posted by kevino

It was a demo trend with 5500kms on it. $18250 last February when the Trend was 23 or 24.


What was your rationale for buying a CX3 over a Mazda 3???


I would probably buy a Mazda 3 base model now over a Focus as Ford,s premium pricing policy ie 3 k more for a Trend over a base Mazda 3 ****es me off.
In fact their whole premium pricing policy over their whole range except Fiesta (which is now hugely out of date and not up to par on engine performance and interior specs)makes me cranky.

Rationale of the CX3 over the Mazda 3 was just that ‘we’ (mostly my wife) just preferred pretty much everything about the CX3 over the 3. The slightly smaller size, the styling, the seating position being a little higher, and on test driving just preferred the CX3. Plus it was just something new and different compared to the Mazda 3 which has been out for 15 years and styling hasn’t changed a hell of a lot in that time.

If comparing with the Mazda 2, it was a much easier choice as the CX3 is just much better all round.

I wouldn’t have bought the base model though personally. I can’t recall how much less it would have been as I really wasn’t interested in it. But losing the alloys, Reverse camera and GPS touch screen plus a few other little extras just wasn’t worth a very small saving.

As for considering other cars, well I ruled out anything with a CVT transmission, and the wife ruled the rest out for styling.

[kevino]

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

Rationale of the CX3 over the Mazda 3 was just that ‘we’ (mostly my wife) just preferred pretty much everything about the CX3 over the 3. The slightly smaller size, the styling, the seating position being a little higher, and on test driving just preferred the CX3. Plus it was just something new and different compared to the Mazda 3 which has been out for 15 years and styling hasn’t changed a hell of a lot in that time.

If comparing with the Mazda 2, it was a much easier choice as the CX3 is just much better all round.

I wouldn’t have bought the base model though personally. I can’t recall how much less it would have been as I really wasn’t interested in it. But losing the alloys, Reverse camera and GPS touch screen plus a few other little extras just wasn’t worth a very small saving.

As for considering other cars, well I ruled out anything with a CVT transmission, and the wife ruled the rest out for styling.

Ok that makes sense. Did you think the CX3 drives better than the Mazda 3?
I pull up beside CX3 ,s at the lights in my Focus and they really just seem to be the same height. But your views make sense. the Focus looks good from the front crap at the back. I also think the CX3 looks good front on but really bad in fact like the Focus at the rear. The Mazda 3 2018 base model now has a bit more stuff added to the interior.The Focus sometimes stutters (its a manual) a bit from standing start on an up hill grade probably revs need to up higher to get her going. I guess an NA engine in the CX3 would be fine and being auto would help.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by lovford

Tell them to fck off and bring the fkn car to your house. No fkn way do I wait in line anywhere. Got to a checkout the other day, and there was 15 people before me. Solution, throw my basket of shopping on the floor and walk out. Better things to do than wait for bad service.

Ha, yeah probably not as bad as it sounds. Just the display cars were popular and there was a little wait while interested parties clambered through the cars. They didn’t have us lined up like cattle. The dealership experience was very positive, a good buzz and very friendly - I guess most staff would be in a good mood when they are selling as much as they do. Interesting nearly all the sales staff were female.

Compared to my recent experience buying an Astra, the dealership was dead, it was a little depressing

[lovford]

Originally Posted by hackney

If all checkouts are full,how can that be bad service? Some body help me out with this one is it me or is it him just being a “Tool” Cheers

There not full, If yu lucky two are open. They expect you to go self service. Another thing I will never do. There job is to serve us, not the other ^^^n way around.