VE GTS 427 385kw here October 07

[Eaturbo]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Dont EVER confuse those people spending 600+K on a rare collectable classic like a Phase 3 with the mainstream "Performance sedan" population...
I dont know anyone who's invested 100K in a B series either.

Well you dont know many people than, GTP $70000 , $30000 mods= $100000
SOME BLOWER KITS ARE $15000 ADD Diff gears and Auto rebuild and $3000 woth of exhaust plus other little things. Hey thats my 500th post

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Eaturbo

I dont think so, if they do this they would have to stop every Farrari, Lambo,Audi, BMW,Merc,Maserati, Porshe and more that is sold in Australia, and its not a normal everyday model.

The media (and Govt) seem to treat imported Euro luxury performance vehicles very different to how they treat and view the the Australian vehicles, im not sure why? maybe its the perceived demographic of the consumer of Australian performance vehicles Versus that of a Euro hotrod? and of coarse their purchase price..

Still dont know anyone who's spent (or would bother spending) 30K modifying their GT/GT-P!!!

[GTS_300_Coupe]

The latest FPV GT R-Spec was a joke.
For the whole time between BA to BF mkII the V8 was left untouched.

It was already slower than the VY1 Clubsport at the start but Ford did nothing. Absolute joke.

[AWD Chaser]

May I just point out for all those GTHO fans, that at the time of registering the TM's for "BOSS" & "BARRA", they also registered GTHO (TM 915957). Lodged on the 11th June, 2002.


So, what I'm saying here, is that it is possible that a GTHO is on the books...

But a 427 has been on the books ata Holden/HSV for quite some time... It's not going to be some half baked idea for a quick buck... I hope for the extra money, you get a more "upgraded" interior though...

[Xitdxr]

I dont know why people would even consider buying a locally produced car for anymore than 60k. Anything above that mark, and its simply not worth it, u could own a much better european Vehicle. Having been fortunate enough to of driven most of the Current BMW lineup, if i was paying $125,000 for a car, BMW is where i would be looking, not FPV or HSV. No matter how much power it has, they are still a family car, not a performance car.

[XRQTOR]

Originally Posted by fordman6

14 btw, and with 20's stock, they aint gonna find a) sticky enough rubber and b) brakes good enough! C'mon, we're talkin' bout GM here!

Yoko make a 2ox25x3o5 tire, alot of porschs run them so they might bite well for a HSV.

[Green X]

The GT is 290KW and has been since it's release and there is no point comparing this GTS to a GT cause they aren't competing, the GT is lined up against the ClubSport and it's still doing ********* well against it for a car that hasn't had a real upgrade in 4 years.

What the Clubsport has had it's power and body kit revised how many times, and in the same time the GT hasn't been touched. and i don't think ford are having trouble moving these So called out of date slow GT's ither and they are holding there value better than the Sport's swell.

So what's the better car then well
I would prefer to spend 70K on a decked out GT and have 55k still in my wallet.

[sleekism]

I vote we start a petition to get the supercharged 5.4L Shelby engine with 373kw and 651nm into the next Falcon this is the top the Ford engine has as they have STOPPED producing the Ford GT engine plus it was a highly stressed alloy sumped racing motor while the Shelby is a production motor.

Is the HSV going to be legal or is it a race track only car?

I doubt Ford is going to be able to top these figures as all we have is the Modular until the Hurricane comes on stream but the Mustang has been a huge hit despite the fact that it's power figures come from a supercharger.

Ford should try and concentrate on making the car lighter than the Commodore and thus would not need the extra power.

I already started a forum on another GTHO so don't go there.

A FPV Cobra R with the 373kw supercharged shelby engine and stripped of all the luxuries would be able to belt the new HSV (especially if the AWD rumours are true)

On top of that a 350kw Typhoon that could also belt the HSV would be a killer.

A twin turbo typhoon perhaps?

I don't know how HSV is going to afford the development costs and FPV is in an even graver situation.

I knew Holden was going to pull a stunt like this the bastards!!!

My gravest fear is that Ford will not respond and try and withdraw from the power wars which is simply not possible.

All is not lost if Ford is smart they will make either a turbo barra or a V8 better than the HSV I really think Ford should share costs with Shelby and SVT but that's just my opinion.

There really should be a gentlemans agreement between Ford and Holden like Japan has and leave some room for the aftermarket.

I have a feeling this is more of a marketing stunt by Holden like the 427Monaro and they wont be able to engineer the thing but then again it could be the AU all over again where HSV build the GEN3 300kw while Tickford was left struggling with the Windsor.

Cmon Ford get on the phone to Shelby!!!

What happened to the "beyond 300kw" concept AU Falcon with the Modular??

[Walkinshaw]

flagship cars on a low production run are rarely profitable. So why challange GMH in a game where there isnt money to be made?

[FASTXR]

Originally Posted by Des

FPV need to call BPR/ACE. Wack an intercooled Kenne Bell blower on some GT's, more focused suspension and brakes and "wallah". 350rwkw odd and fun for all the fans....
Blown 329 cui smoking n/a 427 cui? I'd like to see that....

Sure there's companies doing great things with T6 and Boss V8 engines, but lets not forget that Ford would be having to roll any hi-po vehicles out with a 3 year factory warranty. They need to produce vehicles that can take a fast blast on a mountain road as easily as a daily commute through city traffic - that is, something to everyone. More power means more strain on engine components, driveline, brakes and suspension. As such, you couldn't blame Ford (or anyone for that matter) for leaning toward reliability over pure bolt-on power. As good as many of these aftermarket companies are, I'm sure they all have their fair share of issues when it comes to tuning and reliability.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by Walkinshaw

flagship cars on a low production run are rarely profitable. So why challange GMH in a game where there isnt money to be made?

Brand image, which can count for sales.

[H4ZE]

Screw Holden.
So what if they release some 385kW monstrosity that is nothing more than an Omega with flash suspension, an under rated bodykit and a glorified truck motor?
Good luck to the latest Tattslotto winner who wears his HRT coat everywhere.
FPV should just say, "Who Cares?" and just have a fiddle with what they're already got... Like an F6 with the boost turned up and a lightweight version of the Territory AWD system adapted onto it.

[Des]

Originally Posted by sleekism

I vote we start a petition to get the supercharged 5.4L Shelby engine with 373kw and 651nm into the next Falcon this is the top the Ford engine has as they have STOPPED producing the Ford GT engine plus it was a highly stressed alloy sumped racing motor while the Shelby is a production motor......

On top of that a 350kw Typhoon that could also belt the HSV would be a killer......

All is not lost if Ford is smart they will make either a turbo barra or a V8 better than the HSV I really think Ford should share costs with Shelby and SVT but that's just my opinion......

Sorry sleekism, I shortened the above to save space, but....
Why call Shelby? We've got access to a better blower here in Oz and a couple of blokes who know how to use it. Install a Kenne Bell, easy really....
And yes, a 350kw F6 would be a weapon.

[gs1973]

Originally Posted by Xitdxr

I dont know why people would even consider buying a locally produced car for anymore than 60k. Anything above that mark, and its simply not worth it, u could own a much better european Vehicle. Having been fortunate enough to of driven most of the Current BMW lineup, if i was paying $125,000 for a car, BMW is where i would be looking, not FPV or HSV. No matter how much power it has, they are still a family car, not a performance car.

Dear oh dear...Just because you get off driving euro shopping trolley's don't think all of us do...Unfortunatly mate, BMW and Mercedes Benz's appeal is mostly with Toffy nosed knob jockeys.Get real.

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by Des

Sorry sleekism, I shortened the above to save space, but....
Why call Shelby? We've got access to a better blower here in Oz and a couple of blokes who know how to use it. Install a Kenne Bell, easy really....
And yes, a 350kw F6 would be a weapon.

Good point!

The aftermarket supercharged V8 Falcons are making impressive figures only problem is if they have the production capacity.

Main concern is that if Ford can afford to build both a Typhoon and a GT weapon with people split 50/50 it's a tough call which to make the hero car.

[Walkinshaw]

Originally Posted by Xitdxr

I dont know why people would even consider buying a locally produced car for anymore than 60k. Anything above that mark, and its simply not worth it, u could own a much better european Vehicle. Having been fortunate enough to of driven most of the Current BMW lineup, if i was paying $125,000 for a car, BMW is where i would be looking, not FPV or HSV. No matter how much power it has, they are still a family car, not a performance car.

Just curious if there are good eruo performance saloon's for $60,001? E55/E63 M5 are a tad above that (as are E430's/540i's i think)

[Des]

Originally Posted by FASTXR

Sure there's companies doing great things with T6 and Boss V8 engines, but lets not forget that Ford would be having to roll any hi-po vehicles out with a 3 year factory warranty. They need to produce vehicles that can take a fast blast on a mountain road as easily as a daily commute through city traffic - that is, something to everyone. More power means more strain on engine components, driveline, brakes and suspension. As such, you couldn't blame Ford (or anyone for that matter) for leaning toward reliability over pure bolt-on power. As good as many of these aftermarket companies are, I'm sure they all have their fair share of issues when it comes to tuning and reliability.

6-8 psi intercooled and with better pump gears shouldn't go to bad. Better CV's would also be on the cards (what about the Jag Type R sets?). Torque tags in the lower gears would also ease driveline life.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Walkinshaw

flagship cars on a low production run are rarely profitable. So why challange GMH in a game where there isnt money to be made?

EXACTLY.

Also i think the term "Flagship" in this case may only apply to the diehard performance fan anyway, the VAST majority of Falcons and Commodores are 6 cyl lower spec or base models and sold to Family's and sales reps/execs.....

[Falcon Freak]

I hinted at this new HSV model last month here - http://www.fordforums.com.au/showpos...1&postcount=23

Wheels timing is wrong as the car won't go on sale until 2008.

FF

[gs1973]

Originally Posted by Walkinshaw

Just curious if there are good eruo performance saloon's for $60,001? E55/E63 M5 are a tad above that (as are E430's/540i's i think)

Just read that dudes signature..Got big hang ups on Australian muscle cars I think...First time I read it I nearly laughed so hard I split my Dud's.

[stevz]

Originally Posted by H4ZE

Screw Holden.
So what if they release some 385kW monstrosity that is nothing more than an Omega with flash suspension, an under rated bodykit and a glorified truck motor?

That's great logic you have there. :

So what is an FPV then?

[XRQTOR]

Originally Posted by sleekism

I vote we start a petition to get the supercharged 5.4L Shelby engine with 373kw and 651nm into the next Falcon this is the top the Ford engine has as they have STOPPED producing the Ford GT engine plus it was a highly stressed alloy sumped racing motor while the Shelby is a production motor.

Originally Posted by sleekism

Is the HSV going to be legal or is it a race track only car?

I doubt Ford is going to be able to top these figures as all we have is the Modular until the Hurricane comes on stream but the Mustang has been a huge hit despite the fact that it's power figures come from a supercharger.

Ford should try and concentrate on making the car lighter than the Commodore and thus would not need the extra power.

I already started a forum on another GTHO so don't go there.

A FPV Cobra R with the 373kw supercharged shelby engine and stripped of all the luxuries would be able to belt the new HSV (especially if the AWD rumours are true)

On top of that a 350kw Typhoon that could also belt the HSV would be a killer.

A twin turbo typhoon perhaps?

I don't know how HSV is going to afford the development costs and FPV is in an even graver situation.

I knew Holden was going to pull a stunt like this the bastards!!!

My gravest fear is that Ford will not respond and try and withdraw from the power wars which is simply not possible.

All is not lost if Ford is smart they will make either a turbo barra or a V8 better than the HSV I really think Ford should share costs with Shelby and SVT but that's just my opinion.

There really should be a gentlemans agreement between Ford and Holden like Japan has and leave some room for the aftermarket.

I have a feeling this is more of a marketing stunt by Holden like the 427Monaro and they wont be able to engineer the thing but then again it could be the AU all over again where HSV build the GEN3 300kw while Tickford was left struggling with the Windsor.

Cmon Ford get on the phone to Shelby!!!

What happened to the "beyond 300kw" concept AU Falcon with the Modular??

A Highly Stressed alloy sumped racing motor aye.

It was a specifically designed engine that was built for a purpose & it happens to use an alloy block and dry sump, that engine is so far from stressed it's not funny. What makes you think it's stressed ???. There are 3 or 4 versions that have been converted to twin turbo setups that are pushing over 1ooorwhp, they get thrashed at the track and haven't faultered. The first TT car was stripped down after running 126*rwhp (also had a 1oo shot of gas) for some 6 months and they said it looked like new. It's now making 1483rwhp with a rod and piston upgrade, the rest is stock.

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

EXACTLY.

Also i think the term "Flagship" in this case may only apply to the diehard performance fan anyway, the VAST majority of Falcons and Commodores are 6 cyl lower spec or base models and sold to Family's and sales reps/execs.....

It's all about having a loss leader.

Most people don't buy Fords and Holdens brand new they get it ex-fleet and what makes them buy the car is the knowledge of the hero car and what makes the fleets buy the Falcadores is the resale values which are driven by mum and dad buying ex-fleet because of the hero car.

It's a viscious and very delicate cycle.

People talk V8's and buy sixes.

It's how the system works.

Holden doesnt care how many millions they lose if it means more people are going to buy ex-fleet Omegas to help resale values.

They don't even have to build the car well all the classic aussie muscle cars had shonky quality yet they are now pulling 700 grand.

It's all about marketing people are going to put a poster of the new HSV and then lap up Omegas. The circle of life!

[Laminge]

Originally Posted by Xitdxr

I dont know why people would even consider buying a locally produced car for anymore than 60k. Anything above that mark, and its simply not worth it, u could own a much better european Vehicle. Having been fortunate enough to of driven most of the Current BMW lineup, if i was paying $125,000 for a car, BMW is where i would be looking, not FPV or HSV. No matter how much power it has, they are still a family car, not a performance car.

Please dont tell me we have another one......

Now, In regards to your signature, take your car to our next Drag Day and then I might give your signature some merit.

[Falcon Freak]

HSV are doing what Ford did four decades ago - building a car which boys will lust over and attract them to the brand. Some of these boys will one day be paying big bucks for these HSVs, similar to those people now paying $100,000's for old GTHOs. Ford will lose a large part of this generation becuase of the 7 litre HSV - why would a kid want to be a Ford fan when the Holden's are faster?

Unfortunately Ford Australia is in money saving mode. They are only concerned about cutting their loses. This unfortunately leads to a conservative approach and does not allow Ford to go 'toe to toe' with Holden. This approach dooms Ford to playing second fiddle to Holden which is what thay have been doing since the mid-1990s. And slowly losing the market to Holden as a result.

FF

[XRQTOR]

Originally Posted by Laminge

Please dont tell me we have another one......

Now, In regards to your signature, take your car to our next Drag Day and then I might give your signature some merit.

Must be one of those guys who test drives an m3, slk55 and the likes then goes and buy's a VW golf.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by sleekism

It's all about having a loss leader.

Most people don't buy Fords and Holdens brand new they get it ex-fleet and what makes them buy the car is the knowledge of the hero car and what makes the fleets buy the Falcadores is the resale values which are driven by mum and dad buying ex-fleet because of the hero car.

It's a viscious and very delicate cycle.

People talk V8's and buy sixes.

It's how the system works.

Holden doesnt care how many millions they lose if it means more people are going to buy ex-fleet Omegas to help resale values.

They don't even have to build the car well all the classic aussie muscle cars had shonky quality yet they are now pulling 700 grand.

It's all about marketing people are going to put a poster of the new HSV and then lap up Omegas. The circle of life!

Yes, i understand the theory of a "loss leader" but im not convinced it applies to the broader large sedan market that Ford and Holden are interested in.
I just cant see how "joe average" 6cyl Falcon or Commodore customer would really give two hoots about this car.
It maybe a "loss leader" in terms that it may attract people to the HSV range? but that's only a very small piece of the pie..
If its a sale flop the car could very well backfire on HSV due to the huge development cost associated with such a vehicle, even if its got 3 million KW's etc....

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by FASTXR

Sure there's companies doing great things with T6 and Boss V8 engines, but lets not forget that Ford would be having to roll any hi-po vehicles out with a 3 year factory warranty. They need to produce vehicles that can take a fast blast on a mountain road as easily as a daily commute through city traffic - that is, something to everyone. More power means more strain on engine components, driveline, brakes and suspension. As such, you couldn't blame Ford (or anyone for that matter) for leaning toward reliability over pure bolt-on power. As good as many of these aftermarket companies are, I'm sure they all have their fair share of issues when it comes to tuning and reliability.

Too true !!!!!!!!

Any company would be up against it to ensure the reliabilty of such a product......let alone the R & D cost of even getting something like a Supercharged V8 on the AUSSIE MARKET. Most aftermarket guru tuners already have a base to work with and many of them don't give a hoot about ADR or warranty or any other legal requirements.

Most European exotics have a MUCH LARGER market to distribute into so the R & D costs for a M5 or M3 are easily absorbed by volume sales........where the hell would FORD or even HSV get their money back from such an investment............it sure as hell wouldn't sell anywhere outside of AUS............and I wonder how many of the keyboard pilots here would rock up to their FPV dealer with 120 - 150 K and drive away in one ????

Sparse R & D $$$ for such elite niche markets is better spent on the mainstream FPV products.

[Polyal]

Totally agree with Walky and 4vman. Take the emotion out of it for a sec. What fool would pay $150k+ for a new HSV/FPV. It makes no sense what so ever, GM are in financial poo already, im suprised any of this would get past the first few stages.

Very easy to sit here and say $150k. But you can get many other cars that are ALOT better than anything FPV/HSV cough up.

Plus if you were a holden bogan with cash then you would know that Walkinshaw does supercharger upgrades etc, I cant remember what its RRP, but for a FULL HOUSE model it was under $100k, and it would be just as quick if not quicker.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by ESP

Too true !!!!!!!!

Any company would be up against it to ensure the reliabilty of such a product......let alone the R & D cost of even getting something like a Supercharged V8 on the AUSSIE MARKET. Most aftermarket guru tuners already have a base to work with and many of them don't give a hoot about ADR or warranty or any other legal requirements.

Most European exotics have a MUCH LARGER market to distribute into so the R & D costs for a M5 or M3 are easily absorbed by volume sales........where the hell would FORD or even HSV get their money back from such an investment............it sure as hell wouldn't sell anywhere outside of AUS............and I wonder how many of the keyboard pilots here would rock up to their FPV dealer with 120 - 150 K and drive away in one ????

Sparse R & D $$$ for such elite niche markets is better spent on the mainstream FPV products.

Very well said.