New Motor Mag - Page 2

parawolf · 07-03-2006, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McobraR

Just looked at Steffo's post on the times, but aren't those the same times that Motor got from the last Typhoon(auto)/Clubsport(manual) comparo?

They do that often - seen claims that it is to quote the 'best time recorded'. However when you see the conditions report that has sometimes accompanied these reports, shows that one ran in 28degrees with high sun, and the other at 22 degrees and cloudy.

So hardly like comparisons.

07-03-2006, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bathurst77

----- snip--------
Top Speed...F6 177.2 KMH, Clubsport DTS 174.1kmh, XR6T Auto 172.0 KMH, FPV GT 171.0kmh, XR6 T Manual 169.7 kmh, XR8 168.6 KMH, SS 167.1 KMH, GTO Coupe 166.3 KMH.
---- snip----

Top speeds in the 170-180kmh range? They saying a phoon can only do 177? and a GTo 166?
WTF? A stock 6 falcon or commy can do 180 on a long enough straight! ive seen (indicated) 200 on more then one occasion on em.

and 14.9 for the 400 in the GT is nothing to write home about considering an XT auto should be 15.9-16.2 (ish). Seems a lot of money and hard work for 1 second!

Did they have caravans attached or was me granny asked to drive?

Top speed reached on the track!

No long straight to go faster ,don,t forget they have to stop aswell

flappist · 07-03-2006, 01:57 PM

Yes the normal driver was drunk so they wandered over to a local retirement village to get a replacement......(only cost them a cuppa and 3 bikkies too)

Why is there this constant "conspiracy theory" about these tests? On THAT day THAT GT driven by however many drivers did not perform. Was it a dud? Was the fuel crap? Was the air too hot? Was it raining? Was it the wrong colour (yellow ones are slow :P)
Only the testers know (or not).

As far as the cars should be tested by "professionals" e.g. Craig Lowndes or Mark Skaife, I disagree with that absolutely.
I am far more interested in how they go with "normal" drivers not maniacs with no fear and the reflexes of a fighter pilot. This has more relevence to me.
That VID of the SP vs F6 with the tv presenters driving and then swapping was the most "real world" accurate test I have ever seen.

I know the GT is normally quicker than that and I suspect that there are many dark siders who are sure that the R8 is quicker than it showed during the test, but in this test these were the results.

Remember winning a battle is good but winning the WAR is the point of the exercise.

rst2000 · 07-03-2006, 02:06 PM

where still waiting.........was the f6 an auto or manual pleeeeeeease!!!!!!!!

flappist · 07-03-2006, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rst2000

where still waiting.........was the f6 an auto or manual pleeeeeeease!!!!!!!!

I haven't read the mag yet but I suspect it was an auto for two reasons.
1) It is difficult to get a manual F6 under 14 secs until you get the "knack" and that takes more than a couple of runs.
2) The auto is the "star product" for FPV in the BF so that is the one they would have submitted. (I have never seen a P build BF that was not an auto)

ADSXR8 · 07-03-2006, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ED Classic

2006 "Australian" PCOTY

Entrants...HSV GTO Coupe,HSV Clubsport DTS,Holden Commodore SS Manual,XR6 Turbo Auto,XR6 Turbo Manual,XR8 Auto,FPV GT Auto,FPV F6 Typhoon 6 Auto.

Winton Lap Times...,HSV Clubsport DTS 142.95,F6 Typhoon 144.60, XR6T Manual 144.95,Commode SS 145.80,XR6T Auto,145.90, GTO Coupe145.95,GT146.05, XR8 146.50.

Top Speed...F6 177.2 KMH, Clubsport DTS 174.1kmh, XR6T Auto 172.0 KMH, FPV GT 171.0kmh, XR6 T Manual 169.7 kmh, XR8 168.6 KMH, SS 167.1 KMH, GTO Coupe 166.3 KMH.

TOP 3 Winners of the contest, 1=F6 Typhoon, 2 XR6T Manual, 3 XR6T Auto

Would you assume if a manual Typhoon was also entered it would have been ahead of the auto, like the XR6T................

HEMI POWER · 07-03-2006, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ED Classic

2006 "Australian" PCOTY

Entrants...HSV GTO Coupe,HSV Clubsport DTS,Holden Commodore SS Manual,XR6 Turbo Auto,XR6 Turbo Manual,XR8 Auto,FPV GT Auto,FPV F6 Typhoon 6 Auto.

Winton Lap Times...,HSV Clubsport DTS 142.95,F6 Typhoon 144.60, XR6T Manual 144.95,Commode SS 145.80,XR6T Auto,145.90, GTO Coupe145.95,GT146.05, XR8 146.50.

Top Speed...F6 177.2 KMH, Clubsport DTS 174.1kmh, XR6T Auto 172.0 KMH, FPV GT 171.0kmh, XR6 T Manual 169.7 kmh, XR8 168.6 KMH, SS 167.1 KMH, GTO Coupe 166.3 KMH.

TOP 3 Winners of the contest, 1=F6 Typhoon, 2 XR6T Manual, 3 XR6T Auto

Great result for the Blue Oval,the F6 has again proved itself to be great value.The times on the GT are a little dissapointing but i believe the 290 can produce better figures than what was tested on the day.

HEMI POWER · 07-03-2006, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADSGTP

Would you assume if a manual Typhoon was also entered it would have been ahead of the auto, like the XR6T................

I think it's sign of the times.Autos are getting that advanced that there will be no need to have a clutch.For the F6 to get those track times in an Auto is just amazing.

Quadcams · 07-03-2006, 02:36 PM

Yeh the F6 was a auto. Also in the back section of the mag they try to explain about the effects of the torque tags (or abuse mode as they would call it) on 400m figures etc when testing, might have something to do with the crap GT time otherwise they just bias redblooded jurno's.
Hell they only managed 13.96 in the auto F6 when the othe week someone did a from memory 13.2.

Steffo · 07-03-2006, 02:38 PM

The Typhoon was automatic.

ADSXR8 · 07-03-2006, 02:39 PM

After reading this thread I have got myself very keen to purchase the Motor mag.

A couple things worth noting. I mentioned in another thread of my experiences driving the new BF's in Gt and F6 form, both auto.

Coming out of a Mk1 GT-P, the BF GT 6spd auto, apart from the rush in a much lower first gear, overall it feels like a geniune slug. And my BA 4spd auto was definitely quicker. I think the Euro 111 compliance has pegged it back a little.

The Typhoon was just a cannon and I am not suprised to see these results. Actually, I bought a BF Typhoon, I am completely stoked at these
results.

And somebody else mentioned the solid performance by the XR8. For a car that is nearly forgotten, its keeps punching out its opponent, the SS.

Well done Ford

HEMI POWER · 07-03-2006, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADSGTP

After reading this thread I have got myself very keen to purchase the Motor mag.

A couple things worth noting. I mentioned in another thread of my experiences driving the new BF's in Gt and F6 form, both auto.

Coming out of a Mk1 GT-P, the BF GT 6spd auto, apart from the rush in a much lower first gear, overall it feels like a geniune slug. And my BA 4spd auto was definitely quicker. I think the Euro 111 compliance has pegged it back a little.

The Typhoon was just a cannon and I am not suprised to see these results. Actually, I bought a BF Typhoon, I am completely stoked at these
results.

And somebody else mentioned the solid performance by the XR8. For a car that is nearly forgotten, its keeps punching out its opponent, the SS.

Well done Ford

ADSGTP, you might have a good point on the Euro 3.Sounds all too familiar just like back in 74 when ADR 27 was introduced.

HEMI POWER · 07-03-2006, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lowride260

Yeh the F6 was a auto. Also in the back section of the mag they try to explain about the effects of the torque tags (or abuse mode as they would call it) on 400m figures etc when testing, might have something to do with the crap GT time otherwise they just bias redblooded jurno's.
Hell they only managed 13.96 in the auto F6 when the othe week someone did a from memory 13.2.

Lowride260 you will find most of these tests conducted are done with 2 or more people in the car.I remember when i done my drive day at Calder one of the mags was testing the 350z.There was 2 people in the car and they were not using the drag strip to get the 1/4 mile times.The method they use is like a G-tech device strapped to the car.So having 2 or more occupants in a car when testing it's performance figures will vary from tests to tests.

Quadcams · 07-03-2006, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPVGT

Lowride260 you will find most of these tests conducted are done with 2 or more people in the car.I remember when i done my drive day at Calder one of the mags was testing the 350z.There was 2 people in the car and they were not using the drag strip to get the 1/4 mile times.The method they use is like a G-tech device strapped to the car.So having 2 or more occupants in a car when testing it's performance figures will vary from tests to tests.

Yeh i have heard about there testing equipment but 2 or more people in the car now that would hirt performance, you would think they would have a even testing methods for every car.
Most of use see at the track what these cars are realy like but for the avergage joe blow wanting to buy these cars get misinformed by relying on the mags tests.

gtfpv · 07-03-2006, 05:32 PM

WTF is a torque tag . i am always hearing this now when does a torque tag work . is it from a standing start , or is it when it detects wheel spin . isnt that what traction control is for . so when traction is switched off we have torque tags
my guess of a torque tag is only one application that is instant throttle response!!! that is fly by throttle wire that opens the throttle body slowly on instant hard foot pedal ( but this is a guess correct me if i am wrong.
because i see a real problem with an LSD,TRC AND TORQUE TAGS , hence cv joints on bituman.

RAREV8 · 07-03-2006, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bathurst77

----- snip--------
Top Speed...F6 177.2 KMH, Clubsport DTS 174.1kmh, XR6T Auto 172.0 KMH, FPV GT 171.0kmh, XR6 T Manual 169.7 kmh, XR8 168.6 KMH, SS 167.1 KMH, GTO Coupe 166.3 KMH.
---- snip----

Top speeds in the 170-180kmh range? They saying a phoon can only do 177? and a GTo 166?
WTF? A stock 6 falcon or commy can do 180 on a long enough straight! ive seen (indicated) 200 on more then one occasion on em.

and 14.9 for the 400 in the GT is nothing to write home about considering an XT auto should be 15.9-16.2 (ish). Seems a lot of money and hard work for 1 second!

Did they have caravans attached or was me granny asked to drive?

Yep, that bit got me too- even on a track with bends I'd expect considerably higher times across the board?

Des · 07-03-2006, 06:13 PM

Got the mag yesterday and read the whole article last night. Well done to the Ford/FPV turbos. The 400m times were done at a 35 degree ambiant, so the times will be a little down. Motor usually test 1 up, with a minimum of a half tank on board. They use a GPS based test/timer, this will be slower than you could achieve at a proper strip because of 'roll-out'. The implication was made that if the 'Phoon and 6T's had the same rubber as the DTS, then the HSV would be the Typhoon's ИИИИИИ in lap times as well as everywhere else.
It's going to take a lot of car to beat the F6....Just need to give it a decent soundtrack, (nothing the aftermarket can't fix).

Des · 07-03-2006, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottishxc

Yep, that bit got me too- even on a track with bends I'd expect considerably higher times across the board?

Winton's a very tight little track with quite a few 2nd gear corners, with the 7-8-9 turn series all 2nd gear. The main straight would only be about 300m or so. By the time you enter in 2nd and leave in 2nd, that doesn't leave much time for exceleration, oh, the lap times were recorded by Warren Luff.

Quadcams · 07-03-2006, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtfpv

WTF is a torque tag . i am always hearing this now when does a torque tag work . is it from a standing start , or is it when it detects wheel spin . isnt that what traction control is for . so when traction is switched off we have torque tags
my guess of a torque tag is only one application that is instant throttle response!!! that is fly by throttle wire that opens the throttle body slowly on instant hard foot pedal ( but this is a guess correct me if i am wrong.
because i see a real problem with an LSD,TRC AND TORQUE TAGS , hence cv joints on bituman.

As I stated before the latest motor mag has a good read on torque tags, torque management or abuse mode which ever one you want to call it, bacically they help the manufactor protect the drivelines of excess forces produced by these modern day v8's by taking power out on launching, gear changing etc so then they can put in weaker/ cheaper drivelines and still get through the warrenty period.

Dave_au · 07-03-2006, 08:07 PM

I think at the end of the day, FPVs lineup has a car that under promises and over delivers and another that over promises and under delivers, I don't think that there was any conspiracy about it (assuming that there was an attempt to test all the cars under similiar conditions), it really is the manufacturers responsibility to ensure the evaluation vehicles given to the journalists aren't duds.

I would have thought that FPV would have at least ensured that the performance of that GT was within acceptable performance limits. If the car was, then it is representitive of the entire BF GT population at the moment, as there is just the same potential that Joe Blow could turn around and buy this very car. FPV and it's supporters will just have to cop it sweet on this one.

Bossxr8 · 07-03-2006, 08:11 PM

The GT tested must have been a dud, usually Motor run high 13's low 14's with them. They couldn't even get near that. They need to put it on the dyno cause that one sure ain't making 290kw.

cArSiK · 07-03-2006, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bathurst77

----- snip--------
Top Speed...F6 177.2 KMH, Clubsport DTS 174.1kmh, XR6T Auto 172.0 KMH, FPV GT 171.0kmh, XR6 T Manual 169.7 kmh, XR8 168.6 KMH, SS 167.1 KMH, GTO Coupe 166.3 KMH.
---- snip----

Top speeds in the 170-180kmh range? They saying a phoon can only do 177? and a GTo 166?
WTF? A stock 6 falcon or commy can do 180 on a long enough straight! ive seen (indicated) 200 on more then one occasion on em.

and 14.9 for the 400 in the GT is nothing to write home about considering an XT auto should be 15.9-16.2 (ish). Seems a lot of money and hard work for 1 second!

Did they have caravans attached or was me granny asked to drive?

that would be MPH i would say

:

Rev28K · 07-03-2006, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ED Classic

Winton Lap Times...,HSV Clubsport DTS 142.95,F6 Typhoon 144.60, XR6T Manual 144.95,Commode SS 145.80,XR6T Auto,145.90, GTO Coupe145.95,GT146.05, XR8 146.50.

Top Speed...F6 177.2 KMH, Clubsport DTS 174.1kmh, XR6T Auto 172.0 KMH, FPV GT 171.0kmh, XR6 T Manual 169.7 kmh, XR8 168.6 KMH, SS 167.1 KMH, GTO Coupe 166.3 KMH.

Woo Hoo I'm pretty happy with my Honda's times now! 1.44.14 (admittedly
I'm on R spec tyres and have good pads but at a rough guess I would say that Warren Luff is a far better driver than me

) with some suss shocks and springs. Cant wait to see how I go when they are fixed. Not bad for a lowly 1800cc that does 7.2sec 0-60 and 15.2 quarters.

Their speed at the end of the straight is faster than mine (I can probably go deeper under brakes but they would get a better launch on to the straight). If anyone wants to go quicker than 180 in a stockish (not mega$) road car in to the esses I'd like to see them try.

My lap times at Calder (l-o-n-g straights) was within spitting distance of Wheels auto GT times too (that was an Auto that wouldn't shift when they wanted it to so it was probably a bit slower than it should have been).

The stock Falcons never seem to really go quick around Winton. Nice cars. I'm not bagging them but I am stoked about my times compared to the V8's.

gtfpv · 08-03-2006, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave_au

I think at the end of the day, FPVs lineup has a car that under promises and over delivers and another that over promises and under delivers, I don't think that there was any conspiracy about it (assuming that there was an attempt to test all the cars under similiar conditions), it really is the manufacturers responsibility to ensure the evaluation vehicles given to the journalists aren't duds.

I would have thought that FPV would have at least ensured that the performance of that GT was within acceptable performance limits. If the car was, then it is representitive of the entire BF GT population at the moment, as there is just the same potential that Joe Blow could turn around and buy this very car. FPV and it's supporters will just have to cop it sweet on this one.

this is probably the most accurate post i have read with FPV . its sound like the typhoon has more top end torque seat of pants feel then the gt as it should stating its 550nm's (acceleration) the boss seems to have been held back on power and bottom end to reduce driveline breakage . the typhoon has a power band after take off that cant be matched . but the boss has been held back down low to give it top end performance whoich is inherantely not the characteristic of a v8 . now that really sux. i'm talking about the 260kw and 290 kw engines .

ratman · 08-03-2006, 02:02 PM

regardless of the writeup, gotta love the pic on top of page 69