Paddle shift for '15 VF SS-V Redline

[MITCHAY]

Well if you're gonna get an auto it can't be a bad thing to have. I prefer a clutch and H pattern personally but each to their own.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

I'm wondering why Holden is spending so much money bringing in new gadgets and tech to a car that will be dead in a year or so. Makes absolute ZERO sense to be. It's a niche car that won't ever sell in quantities that will pay itself off.....yet they're still spending more
I'm honestly bemused at this one.
Maybe if it was selling big numbers and had a healthy export program with a garunteed life span! But this thing is dead in the water allready!!

It's actually not new, they've been exporting the Chev version with paddle shifters since it launched last year. Apparently we weren't worthy of them until now. Like every other time they've exported better versions of our own car for a fraction of the price we pay here.

Designing new wheels for the Redline is something I don't understand though. It's not a series 2 yet they're changing wheel designs. I think the originals looked better. But hey at least they're still working on the car, the customer wins.

[LoudPipes]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

Well if you're gonna get an auto it can't be a bad thing to have. I prefer a clutch and H pattern personally but each to their own.

I agree, go the manual.

But if an auto is your thing and in this day and age they are definitely the faster then why not have the paddles as well.

They’re there when you want to use them and they’re unobtrusive when you don’t.

I never bother to use the radio in my XY but it’s there is I wanted too.

[GSPSI]

Now back on topic:
What a legend Craig Lowndes is. Spewin' he's no longer driving a ford.
Will always be a big fan of his.

[PHawk]

Originally Posted by T3ts50

Driving a Camaro with flappy paddles in the US at the moment. Don't see the big deal about them and are highly overrated on an auto.

Got them in the SRT.....Never use them.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

Designing new wheels for the Redline is something I don't understand though

Are they cast or CNC? If the latter, no real extra cost.

[LoudPipes]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

Excuse me but I'm not the one who will be over half a billion behind when the shop closes!
And it makes even less sense to me if what you say is true, that they allready designed and paid for these new options before release..... Because at that time they had no idea if the commadore even had a future. It certainly wasn't looking good with massive shrinking sales, no export worth noting and other negative things floating around!

Falcons going....commadore is going........there's no stoping that. So wouldn't a good buissiness move be to start preparing.....not keep blazing along, like buying NRL sponsorship, v8 teams n drivers and building the most expensive Aussie car ever?

Like I've said before....maybe Holden didn't fall far enough from the rotting apple tree that's GM!

If you knew anything about manufacturing and in particular big multinationals with large scale product you’d also be aware designs and budgets are signed off years before release.

Holden is ending their local production and trying to maintain a future customer base at the same time.

I’m also sure financial write-downs and write-offs will form part of their exit strategy.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by LoudPipes

[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]If you knew anything about manufacturing and in particular big multinationals with large scale product you’d also be aware designs and budgets are signed off years before release.]

I think your a comedian......you realize were talking about a govco owned and bailed out GM. Yep they're a great example of how to do it........

Do you even understand the current and recent history? Holden had NO confirmation on the commadores history.......GM said they wanted it gone......they gave them a few months to secure aus funding.that failed.

Declining sales in large cars happen over years aswell. Clear for everyone to see.
But it's still far more complex then those couple of points.
Biggest thing is they're still throwing big money trying to sell the commadore in small numbers.

[wicksy]

They would be fun i reckon, kinda wish i held off buying my SS now haha, would've been cool for the **** factor like the automatic parking,

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by tempted

Unless you have Holden's balance sheets and accounting audits in front of you then you have no idea of what you're waffling on about and everything you say is sheer speculation rather than fact.
At the end of the day, unless you are a GM shareholder, NOBODY CARES about the financial status and internal politics of a car manufacturer. Car buyers only look at the product they are getting for their money, and if Holden wants to load their cars with features then it is a WIN for the customer.
It is quite obvious that you are misinformed, heavily biased and would say just about anything to prop up your anti Holden agenda.
Im sure if Ford were putting as much effort into Falcon, you would be crowing about it, not complaining.

I wonder if he's ever taken a step back, read his posts through objective eyes and realised that the crap he spouts about, no one else cares about.

But then when you've got nothing else over the opposition, taking the moral high ground is all that's left.

[Dave R]

I read on the Holden forum that the paddles & chunky steering wheel package will be a $550 option on the other sports models, so not an exclusive Redline thing.

Also a bit of talk about it having GM's tapshift 2.0 which apparently reacts as quick as a DSG. I'll believe it when I see it.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by tempted

Really? Please enlighten us.... How much did Holden spend on developing the VF Commodore? How much exactly do they spend on advertising and sponsorships? Please provide accurate evidence.

And what the hell is a Commadore?



No. To call you biased is a gross understatement. You are a one eyed git who is so blinded by the blinkers that you actually believe your own bs.


Ironic then isn't it that the only reason the fgx ever saw the light of day was a government grant? The only reason Ford went ahead with it was because they would have to pay it back if they didn't.

Not sure why you guys need to get offensive.....most get warnings for that behaviour!

And it's common knowledge that when vf was started, GM was bankrupt. There was zero money around.

Here's a couple of eg's off the top of my head......Holden spent nearly 6million on NRL sponsorship....nearly twice the amount they put into v8s. Twice that of ford.
It'll also cost Holden over half a billion dollars to pull out of aus. Twice that of ford. And I'm not comparing those two right now....just giving you what you asked for.

And I do know what I'm talking about.....I just don't like insulting people who I think are wrong when they aren't. And I can't give you links as I'm on an iPad. But if your as serious about this as your guys appear.......do your own research........at least before you shoot your mouths off!

[danzvtil]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

Not sure why you guys need to get offensive.....most get warnings for that behaviour!

And it's common knowledge that when vf was started, GM was bankrupt. There was zero money around.

Here's a couple of eg's off the top of my head......Holden spent nearly 6million on NRL sponsorship....nearly twice the amount they put into v8s. Twice that of ford.
It'll also cost Holden over half a billion dollars to pull out of aus. Twice that of ford. And I'm not comparing those two right now....just giving you what you asked for.

And I do know what I'm talking about.....I just don't like insulting people who I think are wrong when they aren't. And I can't give you links as I'm on an iPad. But if your as serious about this as your guys appear.......do your own research........at least before you shoot your mouths off!

Holden will still have NRL sponsorships etc after they stop manufacturing here, its called marketing. No one held a gun to the Holden execs heads and said to choose NRL sponsorship or NOT closing the factory

[LoudPipes]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

I think your a comedian......you realize were talking about a govco owned and bailed out GM. Yep they're a great example of how to do it........

I’m happy to leave that for your assessment.

You’ve had a lot to say about how GM works.

I don’t know your background so I’m assuming you run a reasonable sized company or at least are part of its upper hierarchy to have such a strong understanding of corporate principles.

Though that doesn’t explain to me how you could have such intimate inside knowledge of the true financial workings of the GM Corporation.

If your info is only based on media reports then I’ll leave you to yourself.

No company ever offers full disclosure of their financial practices, projections or strategy to the media even when indebted to a Government (the lender excluded) and as such to have a meaningful debate where the true facts are confidential could mean I’ll end up wasting my time with one of those internet idiots you sometimes encounter on forums.

Multinationals making huge profits on all fronts year in, year out, now there’s a novel idea.

[Bossxr8]

Mentioning corporate principles and GM in the one paragraph should never be done. They are as morally bankrupt and they were financially bankrupt.

And to think they were so high and mighty that they actually called Ford before they went bankrupt to propose a merger, but only if they were the controlling partner. The arrogance.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by LoudPipes

I’m happy to leave that for your assessment.

You’ve had a lot to say about how GM works.

I don’t know your background so I’m assuming you run a reasonable sized company or at least are part of its upper hierarchy to have such a strong understanding of corporate principles.

Though that doesn’t explain to me how you could have such intimate inside knowledge of the true financial workings of the GM Corporation.

If your info is only based on media reports then I’ll leave you to yourself.

No company ever offers full disclosure of their financial practices, projections or strategy to the media even when indebted to a Government (the lender excluded) and as such to have a meaningful debate where the true facts are confidential could mean I’ll end up wasting my time with one of those internet idiots you sometimes encounter on forums.

Multinationals making huge profits on all fronts year in, year out, now there’s a novel idea.

Are you seriously telling me you think GM know what they're doing after they just went bankrupt and had billions of debt wiped clean. A clean slate and allready signs of old coming through.... FORD made it on their own dime.

Buick is the only segment of GM that made ground the first seg of this year!
There is plenty of good info out there that is reliable enough to form an opinion. Espescially a company under so much scrutiny like GM.
Holden Australia has showed plenty of similiar tactics over recent times that shows clearly they're following the leader. Blackmailing the aus govco, lieing and ripping off their own employees and spending up big when the future looked BAD.
Holden admitted freely they were spending the same money on the advertising budget for the vf that they spent on the billion dollar baby. Fact
Your free to form your OWN opinion on zero info if you like......but don't disrespect me for forming mine on hundreds of facts from articles that have come out in the dirty wash. These things actually happened....they're not made up

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

Are you seriously telling me you think GM know what they're doing after they just went bankrupt and had billions of debt wiped clean. A clean slate and allready signs of old coming through....

http://www.motoring.com.au/news/2013...-to-hero-36912

VF Commodore: Zero to hero

What started out as an all-new ‘top hat’ became a facelifted VE, then the comprehensively upgraded VF Commodore


Holden’s new VF Commodore isn’t the full reskin of the 2006 VE that Holden originally planned, but Australia’s last fully indigenous Commodore is far more than the minor facelift necessitated by the GFC.

The VF was never going to be an all-new car after Holden spent a billion dollars developing the VE Commodore and its new Zeta platform, which also underpins North America’s Camaro.

But Holden always planned to produce a fully reskinned body riding on Zeta architecture, with one early design even proposing an 80mm-shorter five-door hatchback not dissimilar to the mid-size TT36 Torana concept of 2004.

However, by the time Holden had to lock in the design of the VF in October 2009, GM had filed for bankruptcy following the GFC, its Australian profits were plunging due to a large-car market in serious decline and Holden itself was in danger of closing its factory and becoming a full-line importer of Chevrolet models.

The result was a tight budget that limited Holden’s designers and engineers to creating new front and rear styling on the same bodyshell, to differentiate VF from VE as much as possible with limited funds.

“We sat down in a room and asked ‘what do we need to do, what can the business afford?’. It started off very small, a lot smaller than the program ended up being,” Mark Sheridan, Holden’s Director of Body Exteriors, Interiors and Dimensional Engineering, told motoring.com.au.

“It was driven by a small budget more than anything. Financially this was around the time we were going through the GFC. Obviously we already had plans around MY11 and powertrains and all that and it was ‘what can we look at going forward and how can we extend the life of the architecture?’ and financially it came down to ‘what we can afford?’ It started off as a facelift -- fenders, fascias, hood, and decklid and rear lights.

“The GFC fundamentally changed GM because GM was bankrupt and so all grand plans for every architecture around the globe were looked at and redeveloped based on more stringent budgets and more financial control in the organisation,” said Sheridan, who was chief engineer for the Commodore for five years until late 2012.

Poached from BMW to become the body architect of the VE Commodore sedan, wagon and ute, before working on the Camaro then returning to the VE as chief engineer from MY9.5, Sheridan said persistent requests for more finances to grow the VF program eventually paid dividends, resulting in a heavily upgraded Commodore sedan with all-new sheetmetal except the roof and doors, a fully redesigned interior and GM’s latest infotainment and driver safety aids.

“From there we had a whole wish list we wanted to do to the car and over time we gathered more data, gathered more information about why we really needed to change to things like Global A (electric architecture), why we needed to do the IP (instrument panel, or dashboard).

"Because we had gone through MY11 with only minor changes, we really needed an all-new IP and we really needed an all-new electrical architecture because of the technologies that go with the architecture, and we wanted to push the boundaries from a fuel economy point of view.

“Obviously (door) closures are a big thing, and we threw all that in the pot and went back to the organisation maybe three times looking for more funding to generate more stretch in the architecture. So it started off being a pretty small program and ended up being a pretty big program.

“Over time evolution helped us get to a point where dynamically this car is the best Commodore we have ever made. In terms of quality this car is far better than what we have today (VE) – in terms of the improvements we have made; gaps, margins, flushness, even the tactile feel of the interior.”

[1TUFFUTE]

Yeah that article covers it basically. They wanted a full new model. GFC came.car was at EARLY stages of development. Cut the budget. Still had time to expand that cut budget to virtually a whole new model in the end anyway. Nothing like what it looked like at first when GM went bust.
They said they put things into thought like they WANTED to update to the latest tech and fuel economy standards.

Read the first sentence again of that article again. Says it all.
Article proves my point doesn't it. Straight after a bankruptcy and the GFC.....instead of making the cutbacks they thought they needed, they still ended up with a nearly fully reworked commadore. In a market and SEGMENT they knew was struggling and threatening to close local manufacturing.

Anyway.....if you don't get it......you don't want too!

[Dave R]

Ford would have gone bankrupt too, had Mulally not taken out a $30+ billion line of credit prior to the GFC. Ford, GM and Chrysler have since all returned to profitability. You might be surprised that while GM cut back development costs during the GFC (no choice really), Ford actually increased their spending. To be successful today you need good products. Unfortunately Falcon wasn't deemed important enough and sure, while the segment was shrinking, as a result of Ford's neglect their slice of that segment has now shrunk hugely as a result. Commodore now outsells Falcon by more than 5 to 1, that's immense and quite frankly embarrassing. Not the way we wanted to see the Falcon brand retire and there are a lot of bitter people out there. Paddle shifters on a Falcon would have been greeted with cheers around here (they've been on the wish list for years). But because they're on a Commodore, we spin them negatively. If FGX was launched with a host of benchmark technologies, there would be cheers about how world class the Falcon is. On the Commodore, they're lame, the forum scientists predict they will just break in 5-10 years (that's when most of them will be buying today's current models anyway so I guess that's relevant to them). Holden threw everything they could at their final locally made product, now even that is being spun negatively. Bit of a shame how some attitudes are around here.

I don't make billions of dollars per year like Ford and GM. Couldn't give a rats whether they are making money on our desert island or not. Like any other reasonable consumer I'll just buy the best product for the money. As shown by their latest MY15 additions, Holden/GM seem to want to offer the best product. Seeing as they also intend on keeping the Commodore name post-2017, neglecting the Commodore brand now will just cost them in the future.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

Ford would have gone bankrupt too, had Mulally not taken out a $30+ billion line of credit prior to the GFC. Ford, GM and Chrysler have since all returned to profitability. You might be surprised that while GM cut back development costs during the GFC (no choice really), Ford actually increased their spending. To be successful today you need good products. Unfortunately Falcon wasn't deemed important enough and sure, while the segment was shrinking, as a result of Ford's neglect their slice of that segment has now shrunk hugely as a result. Commodore now outsells Falcon by more than 5 to 1, that's immense and quite frankly embarrassing. Not the way we wanted to see the Falcon brand retire and there are a lot of bitter people out there. Paddle shifters on a Falcon would have been greeted with cheers around here (they've been on the wish list for years). But because they're on a Commodore, we spin them negatively. If FGX was launched with a host of benchmark technologies, there would be cheers about how world class the Falcon is. On the Commodore, they're lame, the forum scientists predict they will just break in 5-10 years (that's when most of them will be buying today's current models anyway so I guess that's relevant to them). Holden threw everything they could at their final locally made product, now even that is being spun negatively. Bit of a shame how some attitudes are around here.

I don't make billions of dollars per year like Ford and GM. Couldn't give a rats whether they are making money on our desert island or not. Like any other reasonable consumer I'll just buy the best product for the money. As shown by their latest MY15 additions, Holden/GM seem to want to offer the best product. Seeing as they also intend on keeping the Commodore name post-2017, neglecting the Commodore brand now will just cost them in the future.

Well everyone has their own opinions but I can garuntee if ford had and was still sinking in huge dollars to a car that was not going to live long enough to even closely pay for itself....I'd have the same opinion about that aswell.

And I'm pretty sure ford wouldn't have been loaned huge credit without a look into their buissiness plans and future methods to pay back. Why wasn't GM and Chrysler given another so many billion $$$. Maybe the cases they put forward for more credit just didn't cut it?

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

Well everyone has their own opinions but I can garuntee if ford had and was still sinking in huge dollars to a car that was not going to live long enough to even closely pay for itself....I'd have the same opinion about that aswell.

And I'm pretty sure ford wouldn't have been loaned huge credit without a look into their buissiness plans and future methods to pay back. Why wasn't GM and Chrysler given another so many billion $$$. Maybe the cases they put forward for more credit just didn't cut it?

What do you think about FGX? Financially they would have been better off sticking with FGII for the next 2 years, there's no way FGX will pay for itself- but people buying a supercharged XR8 for 50 grand won't be complaining.

And Ford secured the finance in 2006 before the GFC was widely anticipated (ie, when banks etc were still lending). Their operations, particularly in North America, had been in deep strife for a long time prior and bankruptcy was already a very real possibility before the GFC was even thought of. They had a couple of restructure attempts, then when Mulally came along as CEO the first thing he did was secure a huge amount of money to properly fix the company. GM/Chrysler were in the same strife, but they didn't think they'd need such a huge amount of money. Then when the GFC hit, it all went very bad and when GM/Chrysler decided they needed the money, nobody was lending and they simply ran out of cash. Ford was sitting pretty with huge amounts of borrowed cash. They went to town with product development when everyone else was cutting back- which is why in the years following Ford bounced back so well with such an outstanding range of cars.

And Ford did struggle to get the finance even in 2006, they had to put up every last one of their assets- including the blue oval itself- as collateral.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

I'm bemused at the lack of understanding here. Simply put Holden is showing that despite the GFC and the bankruptcy, they still went ahead and developed the best Australian car ever despite it having NO future and no lifespan long enough to pay of the money they spent doing that.
Ford has spent the bare minimum.....cutting models, features and leaving the falcon in basically the bare minimum state that the public would accept.

Whys that so hard to comprehend. Ford still had to spend money to do this......of course they did.
But one of the biggest cold hard truths directly linked too these cars, is next year it'll be costing Holden over half a billion to pull out of Australia. My point is it's doesn't seem like it's been handled exceptionally well. Beside the fact that the consumer gets a great product for a few years.

No need to be offensive guys.......teach me if you know something I don't know.....don't criticise me for basing my opinions from the ONLY source of info we have.......

With such a lack of support, have you ever considered that it is YOUR opinion which is incorrect?
Is it at all possible that your understanding of the situation is simplistic and void of any real substance?

Do you just believe what ever conclusions you come to?

Apart from yourself, who cares what you think?

[Pir4te]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

I read on the Holden forum that the paddles & chunky steering wheel package will be a $550 option on the other sports models, so not an exclusive Redline thing.

Also a bit of talk about it having GM's tapshift 2.0 which apparently reacts as quick as a DSG. I'll believe it when I see it.

This vid was the launch of the 60% faster pre-filling OS and dual disc carbon clutch converter which debuted in the ZL1.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Pir4te

This vid was the launch of the 60% faster pre-filling OS and dual disc carbon clutch converter which debuted in the ZL1.

Hmm, the question is, can the Holden do that? The existing paddles on the Chevrolet SS (which is of course what these are) react quickly, but I'm not sure they're as quick as that Camaro.

[duaned]

Lol, there is more arguing between members on this forum than both popular Holden forums combined! From now on whenever I see a thread started with a GM product mentioned I'm off to reach for the popcorn.....

[mik]

gear changing the conventional way ..... the way it was ment to be, enjoy !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btqQrpnpXj4

[Dave R]

From the CarAdvice review-

Originally Posted by CarAdvice

In nearly all cars that don’t have a dual-clutch transmission the paddle shifters are purely there as a marketing exercise with no real purpose. The 2015 Holden Commodore SS V Redline is not one of those cars.

The paddles respond almost instantaneously and will not overrule you when it comes to sitting on the rev limiter or downshifting before a tight corner. Holden engineers told us that while they don’t expect everyone to use them all the time, they are there and not just for show.

In fact, through twisty roads they are a delight to use and add an extra level of excitement as the car approaches a tight corner, allowing for the driver to always be in the right gear for maximum power extraction.

http://www.caradvice.com.au/313398/2...ne-review/?LS1

Seems like some thought went in. Look forward to trying them out!

[CyberWasp]

Everybody knows that Paddles were added to the Commodore so that no Holden Owner would ever be left up the creek again.

[brismike]

The wife's Smartcar has got flappy paddles. She never uses them though. Just sticks it in Auto and lets it do it's own thing. On the other hand when I drive it I use them all the time. Can be a lot of fun.

When I was in Europe recently though we leased a Peugeot 3008. It was an auto with flappy's. Funny thing is I never used them. I just left it in auto, not sure why but I did.

I reckon its a good thing to have them .. you don't have to use them though.

Cheers Mike

[Nikked]

I don't get the one man army crusade about Holden specing the commodore with export market parts (not new BTW, VE copped Pontiac stuffs) when Ford did a nip and tuck on a model that will sell in lower numbers for a shorter period. Especially when people were criticizing Ford for not doing enough. Sounds like hate for hates sake with no understanding, something of a regular occurrence from said user...




Good on Holden for showing passion and doing what they can to make the last commy the best they can, just like ford, they are ending on a high, showing of our car manufacturing abilities.