1000kms at 130KM/HR and still Alive..

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by MDS69

Whilst I am all for increased speed limits in the appropriate places 8 hours driving is still 8 hours driving regardless if your doing 110 or 130.

?? That doesn't make sense.

What if 8 hours driving becomes a safer 6 or 7 over the same distance as a result of averaging a higher speed?

Most people don't drive just for the sake of driving 8 hours.

[joolz]

Originally Posted by MDS69

Whilst I am all for increased speed limits in the appropriate places 8 hours driving is still 8 hours driving regardless if your doing 110 or 130.

Or 8 hours driving at 80 as compared to 100 (100 zone). Now lets see who falls asleep first. Surely speeding wont be a factor in a crash at 80 but but fatigue would be, but speed will always be related to the crash as the car was moving as this speel has been force fed to us for decades now as it makes money for the Gov. An increased limit on good roads is justified but in the end will cost $$ to the Gov and will decrease fatigue related accidents. Oh and less gadgets in cars will also keep eyes on the road...

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by b0son

Yep... that's one thing that's never considered. The higher speed reduces your travelling time (exposure time as the road safety pundits call it). Not to mention that on long interstate trips, you want to complete your trip before dusk to avoid poor visibility, wildlife etc.

I think the author took a little too much liberty when analysing the facts. Northern territories road deaths in 2007 was 58 and then did jump to 75 in 2008, but in 2009 it was 31, 2010=50, 2011=45 and 2012=49. If the 2007 figure continued for the next five years, 290 people would have died, instead only 250 people died. Northern territory has the worst record on road deaths per head of population in Australia ( four to five times the national average).

2008 was a statistical blip for northern territory road deaths, it had nothing to do with reduction in speed limits or extra time spent on roads etc.

And if the author was using 2006 figures as the base line, then he failed to take into account that the historical average prior to that was much higher.

[Gothefalcon]

Originally Posted by Billydean

ALL single lane roads should be no more than 80ks.

Surely you can't be serious ??
I live in Adelaide... You can only drive on dual carriage ways for about an hour, in any given direction, when leaving town... then it becomes single lane roads, until you get within "cooee" of the next major capital (save for a few spots in major regional cities) !
In approximate distances from Adelaide... thats "
Perth 2650K (2300K of single lane)
Darwin 3200K (3000 of single lane)
Brisbane 2200K (2000K of single lane)
Sydney 1400K (900K of single lane)
Melbourne 760K (500K of single lane)
Or what about: Perth - Darwin 4000K (3800K of single lane)

Surely you can't be seriously suggesting that we all be restricted to travelling these vast distances at 80Kph !??

I've travelled all of these roads (some several times) in recent times... and all are more than capable of safely carrying traffic at 110... and only some (through central NSW & Qld) would I question raising the speed limit to 130K ! (until they are upgraded) In particular, the old open limit roads in the N.T. (now restricted to 130K) are well kept, wide, open and safe to travel along at "speed" !

Fatigue is a major killer on our "open roads"... because people get bored and fall asleep at the wheel, travelling along at ridiculously slow national speed limits ! Sure "speed kills".... pretty much any speed, when you're asleep at the wheel !!

D

[b0son]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

Northern territory has the worst record on road deaths per head of population in Australia ( four to five times the national average).

NT has a disproportionate amount of alcohol-related deaths, be they drunk drivers, or drunken pedestrians wandering on roads. A significant proportion of drivers/occupants NOT wearing seatbelts only makes matters worse.

Unsurprisingly, most fatalities occur not on open stretches, but in urban areas and remote communities.

[Gothefalcon]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

I think the author took a little too much liberty when analysing the facts. Northern territories road deaths in 2007 was 58 and then did jump to 75 in 2008, but in 2009 it was 31, 2010=50, 2011=45 and 2012=49. If the 2007 figure continued for the next five years, 290 people would have died, instead only 250 people died. Northern territory has the worst record on road deaths per head of population in Australia ( four to five times the national average).

2008 was a statistical blip for northern territory road deaths, it had nothing to do with reduction in speed limits or extra time spent on roads etc.

And if the author was using 2006 figures as the base line, then he failed to take into account that the historical average prior to that was much higher.

And of these... how many were inside the restricted "town" speed limits, or even people pretending to be speed humps (drunks falling asleep on the road at night and getting run over - It was quite a problem in the N.T.) or an over full 5 seater car with 7 or 8 people in it, falling off the road, rolling, killing most on board ? Vehicles travelling on the open road at speeds over 130Kph actually accounted for very very few of these numbers !

When the question of raising open road speed limits is raised... to be fair, the Govt. needs to confine the "current" statistics to relevant information, if it is to be used as a factor in the decision making process !

[Billydean]

Originally Posted by Gothefalcon

Surely you can't be seriously suggesting that we all be restricted to travelling these vast distances at 80Kph !??

Yes I can, deadly serious. I've had a driving licence for almost 50 years. I've driven on every continent except Antarctica. I've driven millions of kilometres, cars, motorbikes, trucks and cranes. I've raced cars, passed advanced driving tests, Metropolitan Police driving assessment, and defensive driving courses. I've never had an accident, and never lost a point from any licence.

Maybe, if you ever gain the experience I've had, and seen the carnage I've seen, you'll change your mind.

Apart from that, I resent my opinion being ridiculed, if you have a long distance to travel, give yourself enough time to get there.

And your guesses of the length of single lane roads between cities does your opinion no favours.

[OCTANEBOSS]

[QUOTE=bungarra;4784324]Regularly used to sit on 130Km/H in country WA without any problems. regularl went out to Wiluna from Kalgoorlie or out to Mt Magnet then out to Newman and Tom Price. The only time I got pulled over was sitting on 115Km/h heading rom Leinster to Leonora at 9am in the morning. The cop recognised my car and thought that I must have been recovering form the pub the night before! Was so used to me and other regulars sitting on 120-130Km/H out there.[/QUOTE

You actually exceeded the limits through the suburbs of the Goldfields , yeh, they are great roads to travel on, a perfect example of why the limits in certain area's are too slow. A lot of people near the cities dont have to drive 10 hrs just to do a job or go to work. If you drive to conditions, your cars safe capability and 160 is a piece of **** as long as ya slow up near other traffic & road trains.

[GREGL]

Originally Posted by Billydean

Yes I can, deadly serious. I've had a driving licence for almost 50 years. I've driven on every continent except Antarctica. I've driven millions of kilometres, cars, motorbikes, trucks and cranes. I've raced cars, passed advanced driving tests, Metropolitan Police driving assessment, and defensive driving courses. I've never had an accident, and never lost a point from any licence.

Maybe, if you ever gain the experience I've had, and seen the carnage I've seen, you'll change your mind.

Apart from that, I resent my opinion being ridiculed, if you have a long distance to travel, give yourself enough time to get there.

And your guesses of the length of single lane roads between cities does your opinion no favours.

Yoo hoo Jack Brabham has joined AFF or is it Fred Niles. identify yourself sir so we all can say we have heard god speak the gospel truth.
Another perfect driver that does no wrong, why is it that most of the anti speed people roll out the "I have never had a fine or a accident" there for they classify themselves as a perfect driver.
80kmh on single lane everywhere, the first of April is long gone old mate.

[Gothefalcon]

Originally Posted by Billydean

Yes I can, deadly serious. I've had a driving licence for almost 50 years. I've driven on every continent except Antarctica. I've driven millions of kilometres, cars, motorbikes, trucks and cranes. I've raced cars, passed advanced driving tests, Metropolitan Police driving assessment, and defensive driving courses. I've never had an accident, and never lost a point from any licence.

Maybe, if you ever gain the experience I've had, and seen the carnage I've seen, you'll change your mind.

Apart from that, I resent my opinion being ridiculed, if you have a long distance to travel, give yourself enough time to get there.

And your guesses of the length of single lane roads between cities does your opinion no favours.

Apologies if you thought I was "ridiculing your opinion"... I wasn't, but I do disagree with it... and we are each entitled to our own.

I cannot quite match your "experience"... however, I have held a drivers licience for 32 yrs... have driven extensively around Aus (on and off road), through Europe & Asia... completed well over 1.5 million K's in a myriad of vehicles (small - large, gutless - massively powerful)... I too have raced cars (& own a race car)... completed and passed 3 advanced driver training courses (which included defensive driver training, skidpan, high speed, off road, etc)... Over the years the Metropolitan Police have assesed my driving on several occasions ()... I have been involved in a few accidents (all in the city, at below 60kph, and none of my fault)... and the only time I lost my licience was when I couldn't find my wallet ! So no... not quite the same experience as yours... but not all that dissimilar !

I regularly travel long distances... I do so safely at the set limits... and arrive at my set destinations within the reasonable time it takes... I also do it in well maintained vehicles... and in a fit state to take on such tasks (a couple of important factors often forgotten)

Nothing I have seen in my extensive driving experience (even though not quite as extensive as yours ) would make me conclude that the the national (single lane) interstate speed limit, should be reduced to 80Kph !
Would I conclude that some peoples vehicles should be better maintained ? Yep ! Or that more people should drive to the conditions at the time (road, weather, traffic, light, visability, fauna, etc) and not just barrel along at whatever any posted limit may be, irespective (80k included)? Yep ! Or that Everyone should do an advanced driver training course (to help make the roads safer for all of us)? Yep ! Or that people should be more courteous to other road users (ie: slow drivers shouldn't speed up when an extra overtaking lane section of road appears, so others can get passed safely - that's what those sections are there for)? Yep !

There are many many reasons for the (as you said) "carnage" on our roads... far too many of them are related directly to "speed" ! Sensibly, the airline industry doesn't take this same aproach (ie: "They all died because the plane was travelling way too fast when it hit the ground - investigation over") They look to find the actual cause of any incedent... then alert all to the findings so that real improvements can be made for the safety of everyone ! If this same aproach was applied to vehicle accidents, and reported truthfully to the community instead of just "Speed was at fault - again" to support some conspired Govt. message... then perhaps a lot more could be achieved to actually reduce the dreadful tolls !

Lastly... my "guesses" of distances between cities (& single lane sections) was just a rough average (sorry.. not mm perfect) and was focused mainly on the routes I would travel along from Adelaide ! They are, in fact, roughly accurate (again, from Adelaide) give or take... Sure, those that live on the East coast (or closer too it than me) might take a different route to other East coast cities... and may enjoy more time on longer dual carriageway sections... but for me to travel to Brisbane via Sydney (or, infact, join the Hume at Gundagai) for example.. it would just add distance.. and time... and expose me to many many more other road users... thus exposing me to a lot more potential accident risk (even though I'd be travelling within the posted limits)

All of this probably wouldn't change your opinion... and fair enough, as I said before, you're entitled to it... but, respectfully... Our's will continue to differ !

D

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Billydean

Yes I can, deadly serious.

Long distances at 80kmh.....

Sorry, I call troll, and those millions of kms driven a figment of an overactive imagination.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Billydean

Yes I can, deadly serious. I've had a driving licence for almost 50 years. I've driven on every continent except Antarctica. I've driven millions of kilometres, cars, motorbikes, trucks and cranes. I've raced cars, passed advanced driving tests, Metropolitan Police driving assessment, and defensive driving courses. I've never had an accident, and never lost a point from any licence.

Maybe, if you ever gain the experience I've had, and seen the carnage I've seen, you'll change your mind.

Apart from that, I resent my opinion being ridiculed, if you have a long distance to travel, give yourself enough time to get there.

And your guesses of the length of single lane roads between cities does your opinion no favours.

50 years?

Wow.

So back when you were driving this umpty gazillion kilometres on every continent what level of technical safety was implemented in your vehicle?
What were the roads like?

I remember when the Bruce Hwy still had long sections of dirt and the New England hwy had single lane wooden bridges and that was a lot less than 50 years ago.

My mum has been driving even longer than you and has also never lost a point or had an accident. We often have conversations that include road speeds and she also believes that the speed limits are too high and life is just to fast and she wishes to go back to live in the past.
My uncles and aunts tend to share similar views.
Strangely I remember conversations 20 or 30 years ago with them and their views were completely opposite.

I suspect one day when I am too old to cope with the current world I will just be grumpy and tell everyone how they should slow down to a level where I am not afraid......

[Keepleft]

With the NT government having adopted an 'evidence-based' approach to speed limits and speed management, that also includes infrastructure qualification (specification grading) and crash rates, we may well see a reduction of 130km/h lengths, or they may be eliminated altogether - in favour of a 90-110km/h, 120km/h range.

The new government approach will see them applying limits to the new methodology. The same approach is being used to determine (//) application.

I'd almost bank on a reduction in the NT's existing 110km/h 'rural default' to the range 80-100km/h. Can live with that, as individual roads can then be posted higher.

IF NT gets to use (//) again, Id say it'd be on very remote lengths, the exception rather than the rule.

Kinda a sinking feeling.....

I had suggested in writing, a draft proposal amendment relating to NT Traffic speed control regulations to cater for a (//) allowance - owing this signs removal from AS1742.4 of 2008, and for other signposted limits like 120km/h to supplement the 130km/h limit.

[jpd80]

God help us all if we regress to the point of needing safety man with a flag walking in front our cars to warn other road users..

Literally millions of events on our roads where oncoming car pass in safety yet the gap can be less than 600 mm.
Sometimes, it's the little things we miss that should wake us up to stupid, stupid legislation in the name of road safety..

4 kph over the speed limit is not a killer but driving in complete abayence to common sense and the laws of physics
ultimately results in a Darwinian survival of the fittest on our roads. If you're too stupid to avoid danger, then it will find you.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Keepleft

With the NT government having adopted an 'evidence-based' approach to speed limits and speed management, that also includes infrastructure qualification (specification grading) and crash rates, we may well see a reduction of 130km/h lengths, or they may be eliminated altogether - in favour of a 90-110km/h, 120km/h range.

The new government approach will see them applying limits to the new methodology. The same approach is being used to determine (//) application.

I'd almost bank on a reduction in the NT's existing 110km/h 'rural default' to the range 80-100km/h. Can live with that, as individual roads can then be posted higher.

IF NT gets to use (//) again, Id say it'd be on very remote lengths, the exception rather than the rule.

Kinda a sinking feeling.....

I had suggested in writing, a draft proposal amendment relating to NT Traffic speed control regulations to cater for a (//) allowance - owing this signs removal from AS1742.4 of 2008, and for other signposted limits like 120km/h to supplement the 130km/h limit.

It will be interesting to see the reaction if NT reneg on (//).
Territorians tend to be rather parochial and vindictive when they believe they have been screwed particularly by southerners. There may be some political careers shortened.......

[Keepleft]

Its funny, the road safety industry really keep a tight hold on speed discussion.

We have The Hon. Duncan Gay as NSW Roads Minister, - seeking discussion into 120-130km/h limits, asking that 'we' discuss such things. Now, people complain about 'speed' etc a lot, however discussion has been very mute on this in most all forms of media.

Even NSW's Facebook 'Highway Patrol' and the NSW Police Force FB page make NO mention of such discussion, ignoring the Ministers media discussion. Doesn't stop me raising the topic though.

Even NSW's NRMA page wasn't aware of the discussion request, till I notified them. Kinda soo ancient-conservative these groups.

Change, really does take time here.

[buggerlugs]

17,000ks in 23 days.......Bet they had sore bums..........

[badasgof]

Its a great subject speed it gets the blood pressure up and the thinking (I am right and I own this part of the road so go to hell) here in WA I am always encountering other road users that will pass you on the freeways (I drive a prime mover) 100 kph and when you get out of metro area it goes up to 110 kph and guess what they do 95 kph when you stop at a road house they say you are tailgating or you are not travelling to the conditions I say why don't you let me pass or why don't you do 105 kph and you can put some distance between me and you, you can not beat them they are out there.

[stevethepom]

With todays technology designed to make cars safer I think that the speed limits here in Aus are quite ridiculous and the way drivers are being brainwashed into believing that anything over 110km an hour could result in death even more so ! I recently spent a month in Germany driving on the wrong side of the road as they do over there but in a right hand drive car that I had hired in the uk and sometimes Iwould be sitting on around 160/170kmh and cars were flying past me at what I would guess around close to 200km an hr oh and I didnt see one accident or crash on the Autobahn ,I later found out that a lot of the dealerships in Germany offer free driving courses for purchasers of performance cars which I think is a damn good idea no doubt that idea wouldnt float here .

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by badasgof

Its a great subject speed it gets the blood pressure up and the thinking (I am right and I own this part of the road so go to hell) here in WA I am always encountering other road users that will pass you on the freeways (I drive a prime mover) 100 kph and when you get out of metro area it goes up to 110 kph and guess what they do 95 kph when you stop at a road house they say you are tailgating or you are not travelling to the conditions I say why don't you let me pass or why don't you do 105 kph and you can put some distance between me and you, you can not beat them they are out there.

There is a strong case for differential speed limits between cars and heavy vehicles on motorways to avoid this sort of frustration - and I'm not sure if 10 km/h is enough, especially if the truck is using GPS for more accurate speed and the car is using an over-reading speedo.

Here's a table of speed limits around the world (columns 5 and 6 cover trucks):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limits_by_country

It's worth noting that on single carriageway roads, the speed limits aren't that high, even in countries with big distances like Russia and Ukraine. In fact Australia looks like it's a "world leader" in speeds allowed on (some) single carriageway roads. But with dual carriageway, there is certainly scope and plenty of precedent for raising the ridiculously low limits on motorways.

For trucks, a difference between 100 and 130 might get some of those irritating cars out of the way.

And note the detailed comment on speed limit tolerance in Australia! Does the author know something that the rest of us don't?

[SB076]

Originally Posted by stevethepom

With todays technology designed to make cars safer I think that the speed limits here in Aus are quite ridiculous and the way drivers are being brainwashed into believing that anything over 110km an hour could result in death even more so ! I recently spent a month in Germany driving on the wrong side of the road as they do over there but in a right hand drive car that I had hired in the uk and sometimes Iwould be sitting on around 160/170kmh and cars were flying past me at what I would guess around close to 200km an hr oh and I didnt see one accident or crash on the Autobahn ,I later found out that a lot of the dealerships in Germany offer free driving courses for purchasers of performance cars which I think is a damn good idea no doubt that idea wouldnt float here .

Agreed I just got back from Germany and drove at over 200k's I actually enjoyed it, concentration levels went through the roof, I found the driving etiquette over there to be much better than what we have here.

I think we could increase our limits to 130k's and on some sections of road even go higher, but enforce the other road laws on those areas (no tailgating, keep left, use of indicators etc)

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

I said the same thing a number of years ago and got flamed for it.
Its not just right lane issues, driving standards in general are dropping by the day, indicators, tailgating, mobile phones, makeup, driving is a second thought to many motorists.
I believe there should be a dedicated branch who do nothing but cruise around and ping people on the spot for traffic infringements, but that would fall under the 'rights erosion' banner and I will wait to get flamed again.

The truth is, all we really want is laws to suit ourselves, and police to book who ever is getting in our way.

For the past decade or more all we have been told is the problem with driving is speeding. Basic road craft skills have been ignored by all levels of government and by police. As a direct consequence I believe, many people now hold the opinion that you can do whatever you like, where ever you like and provided you weren't speeding its perfectly safe and no one has a right to stop them.

Thats how you get a bunch of people driving around in clear weather with their fog lights on to make their cars look pretty and ducking and weaving through traffic with no indicators like they are in a Formula 1 race. There aren't speeding so whats the problem is the prevailing attitude.

Whats more they get so indignant when they are stopped and fined, that half the coppers out there can't be bothered with the hassle anymore. Pinging someone for being three kilometers over the speed limit is easier and they don't complain as loudly.

[AU Mont]

Crashes are mostly caused by human error, not the actual speed they were doing.

So yes, lets make everyone go faster, so when they do crash, it will be alot ******* harder.