Labor car industry policy - State & Fed - at odds!

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

And what is the big picture? Two of the biggest car manufacturing countries in the world ( japan and US) are basically basket case economies. Is that the big picture? Australia which has a miniscule car manufacturing industry by world standards has an economy that is the envy of the world. Please explain the "big picture"

No point having an "economy that is the envy of the world" when it is concentrated on digging holes in the ground and building McMansions. Because guess what happens when one or the other falls in a heap? That's right, your economy that is the envy of the world becomes the aforementioned basketcase.

Having a strong manufacturing sector supported by practical government policy adds economic diversity, keeps people in work in more professions that have flow on effects to subsidiary sectors. And if memory serves me correctly, the US experienced strong growth in its manufacturing sector last year so I wouldn't exactly call that a basketcase.

[tezxr8man]

Originally Posted by mik

The whole political system is geared so members in govco are always concentrating on being re elected rather than doing the right thing,
the country is in dire need of a political enma.

it's not just politicians that are causing dramas for our car industry its all of "US" too, we are all kidding ourselves if we his the automotive industry is salvageable if we by imported stuff. its not hard, how can the manufacturers afford to make better cars and keep making cars for us if we keep buying Japanese or Korean or chinese cars
its called patriotism and being a proud Australian I think

[mik]

Its not that hard bob, australia is lucky enough to be able to keep ahead of the other countries with our huge resource base and small population, very little to do with good policy , but even with that debt is climbing and manufacturing is struggling.

[swp123]

Manufacturing in Australia has been declining since the 1970s, starting with clothing and footware. There are points for and against this reality. The current level of debt in Australia is about 10% of GDP. Compare that with debt in USA of about 75% of GDP. The Americans have had a very tough decade with the military actions on top of the GFC.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

And what is the big picture? Two of the biggest car manufacturing countries in the world ( japan and US) are basically basket case economies. Is that the big picture? Australia which has a miniscule car manufacturing industry by world standards has an economy that is the envy of the world. Please explain the "big picture"

Economies by nature will always go up & down. Just because there’s are down & ours is up means jack!!! Image where those 2 countries would be without there Auto industries!! And there governments fight the hardest & paid the greatest to keep them.

P.S I've read your comments for a long time,your a much smarter man than that comment!!

[BHDOGS]

yup its the governments fault its dieing in the **** not the company's themselves or the buying public its the guvment.

[turbodewd]

Originally Posted by Lardman

Because they're the best vehicle for the work they need to do. An i30 Diesel is one of the cheapest diesels with lowest running costs that you can buy.

I'd rather they spend less overall on the fleet than buying 'Australian'. If you want them to buy 'Australian' Cars, then why not bug FoMoCo AU to lift their game. The Cruze is, in a word, *****, compared to what you can pull economy and running costs wise on the competition. Falcon is too heavy so you pay too much rego, and neither have a particularly good pickup that's useful for the bush duties the rangers need to do here.



It goes back to running costs and leasing - They're not owned, afaik, but leased as an Operational expenditure. Easier to do that as well, as you hock them off before the warranty cliff on the sale value, and you always have a 100% reliable fleet.

Ok Lardman,

lets use the NBN in a few years to replace our teachers with cheaper Indian ones. We can pick the best Indian ones.

We can replace everything in Australia with foreign labour if you like.

We can stop buying from Qantas, Telstra, Coles, etc.

Hell, so you would let our banks be foreign-owned too?

There is no reason a government car needs to be foreign, generally speaking. If they want to save a buck, hold the AU car for longer, very simple.

[BHDOGS]

I find it amusing people want the government to spend our taxs dollars on cars people wont spend there own money on

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

I find it amusing people want the government to spend our taxs dollars on cars people wont spend there own money on

Last time I went to the garage, I saw an FG Falcon!!

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by turbodewd

If, say, ACT government persists with its current policy, it could at least save some taxpayer dollars by buying the car and holding it for 8 years. I mean a Corolla should last a long time without the need to sell it after 2.

From a 'green' environmental perspective, you should use a car from new till it's end of life, not buying ever couple years just so you have a 'new' car.

Originally Posted by jpd80

I find it amazing and perplexing that people still see Australia's ebbing Tariffs as being collected
on behalf of the Australian car manufacturing industry, $1 billion last year and not a cracker of it to the industry.

watching Paul Keating on that abc car show*, it seems the Australian public perceive it that way and that local producers were basically milking the system, selling cars for twice their actual value.

*wide open road

[Lardman]

Originally Posted by mik

unfortunately having koreans or chinese building every thing for us does absolutely nothing for us except put manufacturing here further down the drain, the minimal cost saving you speak of running import x will still cost australia more down the track with no bugger here having a job......except to sign cheques for the government.

It does reduce jobs here, but you've got to remember - it isn't a local government responsibility, and falls on the federal government. There's no incentive for a local council or government to purchase locally.

Telstra, for example will still always use a Ford Falcon ute as a urban workhorse because nothing else fits the bill - a Navara uses up too much fuel and is too large, I could go on forever.

If the Focus Diesel performed as well as an i30 (Not just on performance, but price), it would be used instead of i30's. But that isn't the case.

Originally Posted by dddd

I agree, but lets not forget that the new workplace regulations combined with green energy and carbon tax (higher energy cost) has all made our Australian manufacturing industry far less competitive than they were just 5 years ago.
The high Australian dollar was just the icing on the cake, but it surly is the one point that will get the blame for the whole debacle

The Carbon Tax has only been in in effect since 2012. Europe has had a more stringent Emissions Trading Scheme covering more than 11,000 facilities across all EU nations,, and has been in effect since 2005.

I don't see the European Manufacturers doing badly, now do I? And they also have to update their vehicles more regularly, I believe Euro VI emissions standards are hitting there in 2014 and we're just only adopting Euro V this year for new models, and all models by 2015 (partially why we'll see new engines in the Fords and Holdens next year if anything)

Originally Posted by Joe5619

And you need to that a look at the bigger picture!! Allot of what you’re saying is ok if you are running a business (to make profit), but the government is here to provided services to Australia. You need to look at the bigger picture!!

And to provide services is a business function. You still rely on income and expenditure, and balancing the two to effectively operate. Your sale of product is considered taxes, your product are essential services, roads, etc for the people under taxation.

It's a federal government responsibility to support manufacturing operations across the country, and the SA state obviously funds a lot of it as it is local to them - however, for a small government like the ACT, there is no incentive to.

Originally Posted by jpd80

And the big picture is that we are getting deeper into debt, our deficit has grown significantly.
Everything is under the microscope and god help any department head that cannot justify expenditure

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...by_public_debt

Sort it by debt to GDP, and we're the only particularly developed country that's near the top.
We're hardly in debt by the scheme of things, and it's only been made an agenda by government hyperbole.

It's long being understood in economic circles, the ability to pay off debt is far more important than the total amount. (Having said that, it is why America has been in the shitter for quite a while)

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Well they keep Ambulances until they hit 270,000km and decommission them, then we build them a new one.

Unless its a rural Ambulance, they tend to not rack up so many kilometers because its mainly volunteers out there driving them, I'm in the midst of pulling apart one thats 9 years old and around 200,000km on the clock to go to the auctions.

Why do they turn over their fleet vehicles so soon in comparison?

Same with cop cars, they turn them over at a fairly low mileage.

Yes I know an ambulance is expensive, but if they can keep it for so long and they get driven HARD, by many different people. Why can't they keep their other vehicles for the same amount of kilometers?

Ambulances, afaik have their own maintenance fleets for most cases? (Correct me here if I'm wrong) The ACT Government does not. Hence, it does not own its own fleet.

Originally Posted by turbodewd

Ok Lardman,

lets use the NBN in a few years to replace our teachers with cheaper Indian ones. We can pick the best Indian ones.

We can replace everything in Australia with foreign labour if you like.

We can stop buying from Qantas, Telstra, Coles, etc.

Hell, so you would let our banks be foreign-owned too?

There is no reason a government car needs to be foreign, generally speaking. If they want to save a buck, hold the AU car for longer, very simple.

Once again - falls to creative accounting and operational costs. To own a vehicle, the costs scale and maintenance is required more regularly. It's much easier to hold a vehicle to its 3-5 year warranty where the cost is drastically reduced, and hock it off.

The NBN argument is a pretty poor one - the current NBN is a matter of opportunity. Why not spend a bit more now, to have something that will last a lot longer than the 40 year lifespan of copper, and solve major telecommunications infrastructure problems? Especially since they've managed to force a million gigabits per second over 50km with a single fibre.

Long story short, Ford and Holden both haven't had competitive cars in a lot of market segments for a while. The new Commodore can compete with the Euro brands in terms of fit and finish and overall aesthetic, the Focus is quite good as well, but they need to shed the brand stigma that exists, and also lift their game with their flagship models so they can compete.

I was at a drift day yesterday doing photos, and a bloke drove up with a KPM tuned GT, that got a lot of attention - can you imagine if they actually advertised the stock car a bit more and took advantage of it? I know kids that look at the new BMW 335i and have that as a 'man I want that when I grow up', and to me, Ford and Holden simply haven't had that appeal for a while. The vehicles we know may be good here on a forum, but the general public isn't on AFF - marketing is every bit as important.

Sorry for the wall of text.

[dddd]

[
The Carbon Tax has only been in in effect since 2012. Europe has had a more stringent Emissions Trading Scheme covering more than 11,000 facilities across all EU nations,, and has been in effect since 2005.

I don't see the European Manufacturers doing badly, now do I? And they also have to update their vehicles more regularly, I believe Euro VI emissions standards are hitting there in 2014 and we're just only adopting Euro V this year for new models, and all models by 2015 (partially why we'll see new engines in the Fords and Holdens next year if anything)



I feel you may be leaving out some important details there.

1. The price on carbon in Europe is currently around the equivalent of $5.50 Australian, whereas Australian industry is copping $23.00!!!!

2. I don't believe their ETS is more stringent at all. In fact its just the opposite. I believe our carbon tax casts a far wider net.

3. You don't believe European industries are struggling?????

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Lardman

I don't see the European Manufacturers doing badly, now do I?

Yes you do, Ford is shuttering 3 plants and laying off 4000 employees at a cost of $750 Million US, PSA Peugeot-Citroen, want to lay off 11,500 and Renault 8000 and close four plants, and Opel is hanging on by the skin of it's teeth, all of this wouldn't be happening if the economic situation on the continent was rosy. It 'aint.

[Lardman]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Yes you do, Ford is shuttering 3 plants and laying off 4000 employees at a cost of $750 Million US, PSA Peugeot-Citroen, want to lay off 11,500 and Renault 8000 and close four plants, and Opel is hanging on by the skin of it's teeth, all of this wouldn't be happening if the economic situation on the continent was rosy. It 'aint.

Ford are doing poorly in euro markets because of product placement, Peugeot Citroen, along with Renault have entered new partnership agreements and Opel is a poor attempt by GM to hold on in EU.

Meanwhile, you have VAG, BMW AG and Chrysler Merc posting record numbers in multiple segments.

Originally Posted by dddd

I feel you may be leaving out some important details there.

1. The price on carbon in Europe is currently around the equivalent of $5.50 Australian, whereas Australian industry is copping $23.00!!!!

2. I don't believe their ETS is more stringent at all. In fact its just the opposite. I believe our carbon tax casts a far wider net.

3. You don't believe European industries are struggling?????

We're moving to a market based equivalent to the ETS in a couple of years.
our ETS is focusing on bigger corporations and the heaviest polluters - we're also rebating the ones that are smaller and harder hit and also have green energy initiatives to rebate as well (so you can rebate your carbon tax with recycling programs, etc to go the other way).

European industries are struggling, amid poor economic management and government spending. Certain global industries, particularly automotive are doing quite well at the moment and are currently doing better than a lot of their US counterparts.

Ford and GM both needed record bailouts during the initial crisis because their primary markets were US based only - And we're seeing the same thing with assistance to Ford and Holden locally.

[turbodewd]

Lardman,

the ACT government is paying $20 million over 10 years for the GWS Giants to play 3 regular season games at Manuka oval. That is my taxpayer dollars being wasted if u ask me. They also throw money at public art.

All I ask is that my ACT government buys local. As I stated, I have seen Hyundais and Klugers sporting ACT govt plates. These should have been Cruzes and Territorys. Are you going to quibble with me over a few bucks to be saved on a diesel Hyundai over a Cruze in light of the above?

It is that simple. If they bought local the Feds could reduce the support they give to the manufacturers.

Logic!

SA and Vic have AU purchasing policies...see link below! The ACT needs one as per below. Public servants and ivory towers....blah blah....not in the real world here in the ACT

https://www.vicfleet.vic.gov.au/CA25...hicle-policies

[Lardman]

Originally Posted by turbodewd

Lardman,

the ACT government is paying $20 million over 10 years for the GWS Giants to play 3 regular season games at Manuka oval. That is my taxpayer dollars being wasted if u ask me. They also throw money at public art.

All I ask is that my ACT government buys local. As I stated, I have seen Hyundais and Klugers sporting ACT govt plates. These should have been Cruzes and Territories.

It is that simple. If they bought local the Feds could reduce the support they give to the manufacturers.

That requires common sense though! Shock horror!

(And for local and federal governments to co-operate. Rarely happens.) I personally would like the same. I'd love for that dick shaped owl to be gone too, but oh well. Can't win them all.

With fleet purchases it's usually down to best price winning the tender - Ford and Holden haven't been too good with that recently, considering the vehicles in their lineup. Although I think that they do use a few Cruzes and things in their fleet, fairly certain.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Lardman

Ford are doing poorly in euro markets because of product placement, Peugeot Citroen, along with Renault have entered new partnership agreements and Opel is a poor attempt by GM to hold on in EU.

Meanwhile, you have VAG, BMW AG and Chrysler Merc posting record numbers in multiple segments.



We're moving to a market based equivalent to the ETS in a couple of years.
our ETS is focusing on bigger corporations and the heaviest polluters - we're also rebating the ones that are smaller and harder hit and also have green energy initiatives to rebate as well (so you can rebate your carbon tax with recycling programs, etc to go the other way).

European industries are struggling, amid poor economic management and government spending. Certain global industries, particularly automotive are doing quite well at the moment and are currently doing better than a lot of their US counterparts.

Ford and GM both needed record bailouts during the initial crisis because their primary markets were US based only - And we're seeing the same thing with assistance to Ford and Holden locally.

Ford did not receive government bailout funds in the US, they did it completely self funded by doing things like mortgaging the blue oval etc, unlike GM and Chrysler.

And the big 3 are raking in billions of dollars of profits in the US now, but losing billions in Europe.

[Lardman]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Ford did not receive government bailout funds in the US, they did it completely self funded by doing things like mortgaging the blue oval etc, unlike GM and Chrysler.

And the big 3 are raking in billions of dollars of profits in the US now, but losing billions in Europe.

Originally Posted by http://useconomy.about.com/od/criticalssues/a/auto_bailout.htm

mortgaged its assets in 2006 to raise $24.5 billion. Although Ford didn't need, and didn't receive any funds, it also didn't want its competition to get the upper hand thanks to the government bailout.

It's still not a particularly good sign of a company in strong financial standings.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Lardman

It's still not a particularly good sign of a company in strong financial standings.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say??? Ford was not in good financial standing in 2006, but it is now. Ford's turn around is one of the best in history. Do some research!!

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Lardman

Ford are doing poorly in euro markets because of product placement, Peugeot Citroen, along with Renault have entered new partnership agreements and Opel is a poor attempt by GM to hold on in EU.

Meanwhile, you have VAG, BMW AG and Chrysler Merc posting record numbers in multiple segments.

Lets put some facts to 'Ford is doing poorly in euro markets'

http://www.jato.com/PressReleases/20...r%20market.pdf


Volkwagon: -4.4%
Peugeot: -12.9%
Renault: -22%
Citroen: -12.8%
Opel/Vuvx -15.7%
Fait: -15.2%
Ford: -13.0%


Hardly doing to bad compared to the big boys in Europe!!

[mik]

Originally Posted by tezxr8man

it's not just politicians that are causing dramas for our car industry its all of "US" too, we are all kidding ourselves if we his the automotive industry is salvageable if we by imported stuff. its not hard, how can the manufacturers afford to make better cars and keep making cars for us if we keep buying Japanese or Korean or chinese cars
its called patriotism and being a proud Australian I think

Very true mate, just my opinion , but Australia is a different place now to what it was 30/40 years ago , the days of the digger type thinking are mostly gone sadly, I think, also the days of Australia being mostly reliant upon itself for just about everything are gone.

The lack of patriotism is dissapointing to say the least, I truly hate to think what oz will be like in 2050.

[Lardman]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

I'm not sure what you are trying to say??? Ford was not in good financial standing in 2006, but it is now. Ford's turn around is one of the best in history. Do some research!!

They're doing well now, look at the new cars they've bought out - Ecoboost Fiesta, Focus ST, Mustang - all 'global' platforms, which was an initiative they bought in after 2005ish.

They're learned what Ford Australia are learning - making a car for a single market is destined to fail.

[dddd]

Originally Posted by mik

The whole political system is geared so members in govco are always concentrating on being re elected rather than doing the right thing,
the country is in dire need of a political enma.

I agree totally, but I feel it's also a major reflection of the average voter too.
The fact is the average voter doesn't give a dam about the good of the country, they are only interested in what they can get for themselves now and to hell with the future.

Politicans know that the public are like selfish children and basically bribes them for their vote. As such, elections have now become auctions, the highest bidder gets the public's vote, the country's deficits go through the roof as the country literally lives beyound its means. The average voter couldn't care less about the deficit, so long as they get their something for nothing, as they don't see it as their problem. This is why Europe is in such a mess.

The old saying "the people get the government they deserve" is so true it scares me.

[Franco Cozzo]

The Victorian government is wasting money too, don't worry.

One of these is in my workshop at the moment in Victoria Police livery:

http://armoredtrucks.com/bcat-g3.aspx



Its that one except with VicPol insignia all over it.

Now, tell me what would they need that level of protection for? I haven't seen any people getting around with something capable of firing .50 cal rounds.

And why did they have it built by Lenco Armored Vehicles in the USA rather than Thales in Bendigo?

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Now, tell me what would they need that level of protection for? I haven't seen any people getting around with something capable of firing .50 cal rounds.

It doesn't need to be able to stop .50 rounds, simply providing protection against the plethora of small arms available to today's crim (shotguns, pistols, .303 sawnoff rifles, Norinco SKS and AK copies) is all it needs to do, which I am sure it does quite well. Most Police agencies in Australia have them, WAPOL have a Lenco Bearcat but used to have a WW2-vintage Saracen armoured vehicle for decades.

I'd say the reason they get the Bearcat over say a Bushmaster is that the Bushie is heavier and can't be used on certain roads and bridges and the Bearcat is a purpose designed law enforcement vehicle, available off the shelf whereas the Bushie is not. No doubt also the Bushie is also more expensive because it is designed and built for military use which demands it be more robust to withstand the occupational hazards such a vehicle faces...

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

It doesn't need to be able to stop .50 rounds, simply providing protection against the plethora of small arms available to today's crim (shotguns, pistols, .303 sawnoff rifles, Norinco SKS and AK copies) is all it needs to do, which I am sure it does quite well. Most Police agencies in Australia have them, WAPOL have a Lenco Bearcat but used to have a WW2-vintage Saracen armoured vehicle for decades.

I'd say the reason they get the Bearcat over say a Bushmaster is that the Bushie is heavier and can't be used on certain roads and bridges and the Bearcat is a purpose designed law enforcement vehicle, available off the shelf whereas the Bushie is not. No doubt also the Bushie is also more expensive because it is designed and built for military use which demands it be more robust to withstand the occupational hazards such a vehicle faces...

Thales do another smaller vehicle than the Bushmaster, don't they?

They were competing with AM General a little while back on something to replace the HMMWV.

Surely one of the companies which does armoured prison vans here would be able to knock them up an armoured Mercedes Sprinter or similar van which would be suitable for their purpose?

Given that VicPol's critical response unit gets around in unarmored Mercedes Vitos.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Thales do another smaller vehicle than the Bushmaster, don't they?

They were competing with AM General a little while back on something to replace the HMMWV.

Surely one of the companies which does armoured prison vans here would be able to knock them up an armoured Mercedes Sprinter or similar van which would be suitable for their purpose?

Given that VicPol's critical response unit gets around in unarmored Mercedes Vitos.

That would be the Hawkei. It is still undergoing testing. Probably not suitable either because it would be on the small side for Police use. Sizewise, the Bearcat seems to be in that sweet spot between the Bushie and smaller Hawkei where they need the ability to carry a squad of TRG officers in full rig, but don't need something the size of the Bushie and all the stuff it has to support military operations away from base for extended periods, whereas the Bearcat is designed to smash up someone's ****, force an end to a hostage or shooting crisis, or be used as a shield if the coppers have to retrieve one of their own or a member of the public from a dangerous situation.

I don't think an armoured Mercedes Sprinter is going to be able to cover rough terrain at speed, mount kerbs at 60km/h or bash down fences like the Bearcat can. It's based on the Ford Super Duty platform and designed to be used like you stole it.

[Crazy Dazz]

It’s not just the motoring industry.
I live in WA and work in the Mining & Construction industry. It’s not all beer & skittles, but yeah, by and large life is good.
The thing that ***** me off is this.
People including Joolya ***** about the “2-speed” economy, but instead of doing something constructive they resort to mean & envious policies such as the mining tax.
So tell me this. Australia produces the best natural produce food in the world. So WHY does most of the food we buy come from SE Asia? Please explain why an Australian fishing in the Southern ocean is hamstrung so that it becomes cheaper for boats to come all the way from Taiwan, take the fish back to Asia, and then export it to us? Why does my canned and frozen food come from everywhere else in the world, whilst SE Australian cannery workers lose their jobs?

Many people don’t realise this, but Australian expertise leads the world in Mining, Processing, and Project Management. Australians are sought allover the world despite our salary requirements being so high.
Yet when building an Australian designed processing plant and mining operation IN Australia, the steel comes from China, the heavy equipment comes from the USA, Japan, and Europe, components from all over the world, and all our consumables from China? This booming industry COULD help support other industries in Australia, particularly the Steel, Manufacturing, and food sectors in SE Australia. But No.

My most recent project was working in SE Asia, for an Asian company. They brought in Australians because they recognised our expertise. To import specialised components from outside the country, we had to prove that they were completely unobtainable in-country and then pay massive import taxes. If there was a local company that simply imported the goods, we still had to deal with them.
Every other country in the freakin world prefers and protects their local businesses and industry.
Contrast that with Australia. The joke of it is that the steel & components coming in from China is ****. They lie, they cheat, then delivery inferior crap that doesn’t even match a simple drawing. But hey it’s cheap.
On a previous project we had to get our piping from Thailand. It’s cheaper than Australia, but nowhere near as cheap as China, unfortunately Chinese piping is beyond ****, it is simply unusable.

Safety standards in Australian Mining & Construction are world’s best practice, but guess where all our PPE comes from? Asian sweatshops. We know this stuff comes from sweatshops where safety and human rights are ignored, yet our government turns a blind eye.

Sure, Australia should not be a player in EVERY industry, and there are some where we are at a competitive disadvantage. Realistically we will always struggle to be competitive in industries that are highly labour intensive. But tell me why it makes sense for us to export our iron-ore, coal, and LNG to china, let them make the steel, and then import it back again. Steel-Making is not labour intensive, its capital intensive.

The underlying problem is that we have politicians that are interested only in making themselves popular with gifts of cheap trinkets, and we have far too many naïve simpletons who are seduced by what is right in front of them, without realising what is being stolen from them and their children. When the AUD goes up, everybody gets happy and starts planning their next Bali trip. Who cares that it is being kept high by other countries continuously selling their currency short to make their industries and farmers more competitive. When another Australian factory closes, yes we get upset, but we fail to see the link. A government that increased our cost of living by imposing import duties would be unpopular, never mind how many jobs it might save.

There is no point talking about a “level playing field.” China is not even playing the same sport. It’s like being in a cycling event, when all your competitors are on motorbikes.

It REALLY ***** me to look at the current sales figures. Who are the companies soaring up the charts? Hyundai, Nissan, Mazda, etc. Companies that don’t invest one red cent in this country or employ a single Australian in manufacturing.

The other problem is that the exchange rate DOES move, dependent on commodity prices. Unfortunately the effect is largely lopsided. Whilst our currency remains high, local construction is unprofitable, and no company in its right mind would commit to future investment. I'm not predicting doom & gloom for the mining industry anytime soon, but when the exchange rate does swing back all those European & Japanese cars are going to get effing expensive again.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

That would be the Hawkei. It is still undergoing testing. Probably not suitable either because it would be on the small side for Police use. Sizewise, the Bearcat seems to be in that sweet spot between the Bushie and smaller Hawkei where they need the ability to carry a squad of TRG officers in full rig, but don't need something the size of the Bushie and all the stuff it has to support military operations away from base for extended periods, whereas the Bearcat is designed to smash up someone's ****, force an end to a hostage or shooting crisis, or be used as a shield if the coppers have to retrieve one of their own or a member of the public from a dangerous situation.

I don't think an armoured Mercedes Sprinter is going to be able to cover rough terrain at speed, mount kerbs at 60km/h or bash down fences like the Bearcat can. It's based on the Ford Super Duty platform and designed to be used like you stole it.

Think out of all the previous situations in Victoria's history where they've actually needed something with that capability? I guess its better having it than not having it, but I assume that thing wouldn't have come cheap for how much its going to be actually used.

It will probably sit in a workshop for most of its life, then be decommissioned when it becomes "too old" without actually being used.

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

The joke of it is that the steel & components coming in from China is ****. They lie, they cheat, then delivery inferior crap that doesn’t even match a simple drawing. But hey it’s cheap.
On a previous project we had to get our piping from Thailand. It’s cheaper than Australia, but nowhere near as cheap as China, unfortunately Chinese piping is beyond ****, it is simply unusable.

We have this problem with the furniture in our ambulances, I've probably unloaded more than 50 kits of Chinese made furniture we had made up and shipped out to us in Melbourne.

So far the problems we've encountered:

• Wrong colour
• Powercoat thin and peels off
• Bad welds
• Sharp holes
• Crap aluminium
• Wrong sized holes

We specify WHITE for our powder coat, and it comes out cream or off white, the metal isn't prepped before its powder coated, so it peels off easily, the welds break, the holes they cut out are sharp with jagged edges, the aluminium is of crap quality and the holes are never the right size and in the wrong places.

We've actually spent more time reworking Chinese furniture to get it to an acceptable standard, costing more than just getting it made in Australia in the first place.

Management wants to persist because "its cheap".

I guess it doesn't help when people in power are all yes men and treating the boss like a mushroom, feed him **** and keep him in the dark.

And he does the same to his boss.

So on so forth.

In these times it seems like its more about looking like you're doing the right thing, than actually doing it.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Think out of all the previous situations in Victoria's history where they've actually needed something with that capability? I guess its better having it than not having it, but I assume that thing wouldn't have come cheap for how much its going to be actually used.

It will probably sit in a workshop for most of its life, then be decommissioned when it becomes "too old" without actually being used.

I can't speak for Victoria, but I can't imagine Victoria having less problems with gang violence, bikies and sieges/gun crime than WA does. The Bearcat is indeed expensive, and yes it would be used probably only a handful of times per year, but if it means the difference between dead Police and/or members of the public and not, I'd rather the money be spent on the Bearcat or something like it.