V8 Supercars Texas round - Page 2

Buntz · 13-11-2012, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tysonv48

We're would the falcon sit
The US already have a family car (fusion) and sports car (mustang)
So there may not be a market, Ford Au need to test the waters first.

Were would it sit? Sports Saloon?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moby Vic

Ford has looked at bringing the Falcon back here many times, but for whatever reason, the numbers never add up for it to be done profitably.

Having driven a Falcon recently, I think it's a great car, but it would compete more with Fusion than Taurus. I was a little short on legroom (but I am in most cars).

Most Americans now seem to think FWD is superior to RWD, which is sad.

I know there are people here who have said that Falcon has been looked at for replacement many times. And Taurus was trialled here for that purpose. But never have I ever once seen someone say that Falcon was looked at for the US. Well maybe once back in BA development (or was it AU?)

I don't think Falcon would compete with Fusion at all. It's has totally different powertrains. And seeing as the Fusion has the 1.6EB, and Hybrid, and Plug-in Hybrid drivetrains... it's in a completely different category altogether.

It is very sad that Americans prefer FWD. Or at least don't care. But what Falcon did you drive? And how would it rate to something from Chrysler/Dodge?

Buntz · 13-11-2012, 09:39 PM

Also when is the Texas round of the V8SC?

Tysonv48 · 13-11-2012, 09:52 PM

Late may I think

Bonn · 13-11-2012, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moby Vic

Plenty of RWD sedans (even with IRS) are available in the uS. They're just not sold by Ford.

A GT R-Spec might be considered exotic, or a Ute, but a Falcon XR6 or an EcoBoost Falcon would just look like another car, with older styling than the current Fusion.

It won't hurt for racegoers to see what Ford Aus have, and as un-exotic as Ecoboost might seem, the mechanically minded might like it, in a futuristic way. I'm not prepared to trample the flowers on this one - if the General's there, so should we be.

TC200six · 13-11-2012, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz

Also when is the Texas round of the V8SC?

May 17-19

Buntz · 13-11-2012, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TC200six

May 17-19

Cheers mate. Wasn't till a minute after posting that I thought; "Just google it ya numpty."

Moby Vic · 14-11-2012, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz

I know there are people here who have said that Falcon has been looked at for replacement many times. And Taurus was trialled here for that purpose. But never have I ever once seen someone say that Falcon was looked at for the US. Well maybe once back in BA development (or was it AU?)

I don't think Falcon would compete with Fusion at all. It's has totally different powertrains. And seeing as the Fusion has the 1.6EB, and Hybrid, and Plug-in Hybrid drivetrains... it's in a completely different category altogether.

It is very sad that Americans prefer FWD. Or at least don't care. But what Falcon did you drive? And how would it rate to something from Chrysler/Dodge?

Within the last decade I've seen pictures of Falcons undergoing evaluation in the US. I imagine Ford considered it for American police and taxi use when the Crown Vic was retired.

Falcon would compete with Fusion because they're about the same size. Ford has been working very hard to eliminate redundancy within its model lineup. Both Falcon and Fusion would be considered midsize here. The powertrains make no difference. And I'm sure there will be sportier versions of the Fusion in the future.

I rented an XR6 and drove it from Sydney to Canberra and back. I didn't play with it too much, as I was having to get accustomed to driving on the left side of the road. The only time I really had fun with it was on back roads driving back through mountains from the Canberra Deep Space Communications Centre.

I've never driven a new Charger, Challenger, or 300C, so I can't compare. I'm sure the Falcon has a nicer interior, though.

Buntz · 15-11-2012, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moby Vic

Within the last decade I've seen pictures of Falcons undergoing evaluation in the US. I imagine Ford considered it for American police and taxi use when the Crown Vic was retired.

Nah mate. Ford NA always get a Falcon and Territory for testing purposes. Just their way of sampling all their products as well as doing some regional specific dev work for the Aus division.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moby Vic

Falcon would compete with Fusion because they're about the same size. Ford has been working very hard to eliminate redundancy within its model lineup. Both Falcon and Fusion would be considered midsize here. The powertrains make no difference. And I'm sure there will be sportier versions of the Fusion in the future.

Well I disagree. Any sportier version of the Fusion will not have a big six, or V8.

But Falcon would be too expensive to wear a Falcon badge in the US anyway. Would have to be Lincoln, which would make sense also for a unique platform for it's luxury division. Just like Lexus or Infiniti.

And if you do get the opportunity, maybe take a Charger for test drive and let us know your thoughts. I'm sure many here would be keen to hear your comparison.

Moby Vic · 15-11-2012, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz

Well I disagree. Any sportier version of the Fusion will not have a big six, or V8.

But Falcon would be too expensive to wear a Falcon badge in the US anyway. Would have to be Lincoln, which would make sense also for a unique platform for it's luxury division. Just like Lexus or Infiniti.

And if you do get the opportunity, maybe take a Charger for test drive and let us know your thoughts. I'm sure many here would be keen to hear your comparison.

There will be a sporty version of the Fusion at some point, and no, it won't have a big six or an eight (but it could have AWD). But that doesn't matter now. What people care about is fuel economy. If you just want to go fast, you can buy a Mustang.

I've stated many times that I'd like to see Mustang, Falcon, and a new Lincoln share a chassis. I think merely badging a Falcon as a Lincoln wouldn't work. It needs to have whatever Lincoln's new design language is.

But in the current environment I cannot see Ford bringing the Falcon over here as a Falcon, especially after spending all that money on redesigning and hyping the new Fusion.

And I can't see the Territory coming over here for pretty much the same reason—it would compete with Explorer.

Regarding the Mopars, I hated the first generation of the new Charger. I love the looks of the Challenger but hate its size and mass (the Hemi versions are heavier than my Crown Vic). I like the restyled Charger, and the interiors have gotten much nicer. I'm sure rear visibility is horrendous in a Charger, though, and the trunk is tiny.

I'm sure they're fun to drive. The Florida Highway Patrol has a bunch of them now.

FPV GTHO · 15-11-2012, 08:17 AM

Falcon would probably fall short on its interior and tech before its lack of a Lincoln face or styling. Sending it now would be a failure like the Pontiac GTO.

Moby Vic · 15-11-2012, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonn

It won't hurt for racegoers to see what Ford Aus have, and as un-exotic as Ecoboost might seem, the mechanically minded might like it, in a futuristic way. I'm not prepared to trample the flowers on this one - if the General's there, so should we be.

We can already get EcoBoost in several different models, including a V6 in the Taurus SHO and Explorer Sport. Fusion offers an EcoBoost model (four cylinders) as well.

lv619 · 15-11-2012, 09:10 AM

Ford HO will NOT export the falcon to the US.

**Jastel** · 15-11-2012, 02:06 PM

Comparing Fusion to Falcon is wrong, it should be compared to Camry.
I have plenty of Falcons, and have driven a Fusion for 5000 miles, they are nothing like a Falcon.
Currently driving a Nissan Altima over here, like a poor version of the Maxima, again compareable to Camry, probably Avalon has the same stupid foot park brake thing. A good enough car around town but for not so much for the interstates.

Moby Vic · 15-11-2012, 11:57 PM

It's not wrong. The Falcon and the Fusion are about the same size, with similar interior volume.

Park them side by side with a Taurus and you'll see what I mean. Taurus is the Camry competitor, for better or worse.

Buntz · 16-11-2012, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

Falcon would probably fall short on its interior and tech before its lack of a Lincoln face or styling. Sending it now would be a failure like the Pontiac GTO.

Well yeah... couldn't just be a badge engineer. Will need the Lincoln tech and plushities.

Serial_Fool · 17-11-2012, 01:46 AM

Just coming from a trip in the US, I really don't think there is room for a Falcon in the Ford line up.

They have the Ford Fusion, which is a fairly large car, and then they have the Ford Taurus, which is pretty large again.

All front wheel drive of course.

The only advantage the Falcon would have is being a RWD car, and they've already got that covered with the Mustang.

DanielXR8 · 17-11-2012, 02:57 AM

Take the cars over in hope of exports - highly improbable.

Take them over to wave the banner, gain some positive attention for Ford Australia, boost the morale of Ford Australia employees and possibly get Falcon enough positive reviews (give them on loan to the media) certainly possible.

Some positive news to help Falcons or any Australian manufacturing chances post 2016 here can't hurt and it also adds some prestige to the Australian engineering operations in the Ford empire.

Definitely worth a shot.

Otherwise many yanks will just assume Falcon is some kind of Fusion and the best opportunity to market itself that Ford Australia has had in decades will be squandered.

Moby Vic · 17-11-2012, 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serial_Fool

Just coming from a trip in the US, I really don't think there is room for a Falcon in the Ford line up.

They have the Ford Fusion, which is a fairly large car, and then they have the Ford Taurus, which is pretty large again.

All front wheel drive of course.

The only advantage the Falcon would have is being a RWD car, and they've already got that covered with the Mustang.

Taurus is available in AWD, also. The Police Interceptor version (which Ford adamantly claims is not a Taurus) has standard AWD (but that can be deleted on the base model).

**Jastel** · 17-11-2012, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moby Vic

It's not wrong. The Falcon and the Fusion are about the same size, with similar interior volume.

Park them side by side with a Taurus and you'll see what I mean. Taurus is the Camry competitor, for better or worse.

I think it is...you dont compare a FWD Fusion to a RWD Mustang...why compare it to a RWD Falcon?
I am not saying the Fusion is a bad car, it was better than the older model Camrys I have driven and better than this Altima...Ford should bring it to Aust... it will get some sales from Cruze and the Japs.

It's just not a Falcon...

Moby Vic · 17-11-2012, 02:41 PM

You compare a sedan to a sedan. You can compare performance, skidpad, and fuel economy numbers.

Those are more relevant than drive configuration, especially now.

A Fusion isn't a Falcon and a Falcon isn't a Mustang.

And the main issue with bringing the Falcon to the US is redundancy in the lineup. I realize that Australians will never accept this, but the Falcon would be a considered a midsize sedan in the US, and Ford already offers a midsize sedan in the US.

The second problem (and I guarantee that Ford has looked at this) is that the Falcon would not be economically viable for export to the US. Australian labor costs too much—especially with the current strength of the Australian dollar vs. the weakness of the US dollar—to enable the car to be sold at a profitable price point.

If the next-generation Falcon becomes a global platform, or if it shares a chassis with the Mustang and a Lincoln, maybe it would work. But if Ford showed one off in Austin, if every attendee at the race wrote a letter to Alan Mulally demanding that Ford sell the car in the US, it wouldn't happen.

FPV GTHO · 17-11-2012, 02:57 PM

It's not the labour prices between US and OZ, Falcon has to recoup development costs on what is now under 20k sales a year and would've been around 30k a year when FG launched. Fusion is capable of selling 10x that amount, with its platform also originally shared with Mazda and others and now Ford Europe.

jpd80 · 17-11-2012, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

It's not the labour prices between US and OZ, Falcon has to recoup development costs on what is now under 20k sales a year and would've been around 30k a year when FG launched. Fusion is capable of selling 10x that amount, with its platform also originally shared with Mazda and others and now Ford Europe.

The new Fusion now has about an extra inch (25mm) more hip and shoulder room over Mondeo,
Falcon's advantage over Mondeo in hip and shoulder room was around 3-4" but now it's down to 2-3" with Fusion..

Franco Cozzo · 17-11-2012, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moby Vic

Australian labor costs too much—especially with the current strength of the Australian dollar vs. the weakness of the US dollar—to enable the car to be sold at a profitable price point.

Then let us design it and you can build it, or Thailand can for us.

Moby Vic · 17-11-2012, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

The new Fusion now has about an extra inch (25mm) more hip and shoulder room over Mondeo,
Falcon's advantage over Mondeo in hip and shoulder room was around 3-4" but now it's down to 2-3" with Fusion..

It's also no longer on the Mazda chassis.

And the next Mondeo comes from the current Fusion.

phillyc · 17-11-2012, 04:35 PM

Three cars to take if it were my choice.
FPV GT R-Spec
Falcon G6E Ecoboost
Falcon XR6T Ute.

I think there would be more interest in the Ute.

Moby Vic · 18-11-2012, 02:16 AM

I agree, but I can't see Ford selling that over here, either.

Maybe GM will try again.

**Jastel** · 18-11-2012, 08:55 AM

A Fusion isn't a Falcon and a Falcon isn't a Mustang.

Thats what I said!!

I agree Falcon wont be coming over to the USA.

BTW does anybody do the speed limit over here??
8 hours driving a bit above the posted limits and I overtook a handful of trucks, I thought I must have had it reverse or something...
A couple of speed cameras could save them from the fiscal cliff in a week or two!

Moby Vic · 18-11-2012, 09:05 AM

No one car is another car. But sedans are sedans regardless of drive configuration. Even in Australia you can choose from FWD, RWD, or AWD. How many Australians buy sedans? How many choose Falcon?

Where were you driving? Some places are worse than others. On most interstates you can easily get away with 10 mph over, though.

The very idea of speed cameras is un-American (which doesn't mean we won't get them). Redlight cameras are bad enough.

Buntz · 18-11-2012, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

Falcon would probably fall short on its interior and tech before its lack of a Lincoln face or styling. Sending it now would be a failure like the Pontiac GTO.

Have a look at the interior of the MKS. http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2013-...#photo-5429056

It's not all that flash at all really. Not a huge departure from the look of a G6E

monte.b · 19-11-2012, 10:25 PM

Whats the point of the thread anyway ,the 888 dunnydors are on steroids and nothing will catch them,they need to have a real good look at those 2 cars,something wrong there ,so maybe they will take some holdens over with them ,i love my bf falcon but im afraid the writing is on the wall ,ford will leave australia in the next couple of years i reckon ,very sad too