LSA - how soon before HSV introduces it?

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

Anybody have any recent news about LSA powered HSVs?

You'd be better off asking that question on www.ls1.com.au

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

Can't help but wonder how much power does a family car REALLY need?

Family? what family?

[Kable72]

It's a performance car based off a family car.

[Resurrection]

Originally Posted by Rodge

You'd be better off asking that question on www.ls1.com.au

I am asking this question on AFF as a hint to us Ford people that FPV will again be playing second fiddle to HSV in 2014 and beyond.

[xisled]

HSV already have a car that would smash the current GT.
They have had it for a few years now.

It is a W427. 370kw.

HSV have to power to smash the GT.

[crymoarpls]

Originally Posted by Kable72

It's a performance car based off a family car.

most people with families i see are driving suvs or hatches now.

[james22]

Originally Posted by xisled

HSV already have a car that would smash the current GT.
They have had it for a few years now.

It is a W427. 370kw.

HSV have to power to smash the GT.

Considering the GT makes nearly as much power standard, and the fact that you could buy 2 Gt's for the price of a W427. And also the fact that the W427 was a limited edition I think your comparing apples to oranges lol

[Fireblade]

W427 rwkw figure was around the high 290's, can't say that is smashing FPV's GT, if anything its behind, the torque figures would be a good indicator of where they both stand but with forced induction I'd stand in the blue corner on that one.

W427's engine and driveline is very different considering dry sump on the engine and the other upgrades to cope with the power.

The only thing the W427 was smashing the GT in was price and that was more than twice the cost on road for the 427.

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by xisled

HSV already have a car that would smash the current GT.
They have had it for a few years now.

It is a W427. 370kw.

HSV have to power to smash the GT.

Originally Posted by Resurrection

I am asking this question on AFF as a hint to us Ford people that FPV will again be playing second fiddle to HSV in 2014 and beyond.

Can you see me quivering in my boots Low / mid 400 rwkw's is easy as for a tuned SC wolf which makes the W427 yesterday's news.

SC HSV will be good for competition, FPV must be sick of having it so easy lately I'm bored with hunting Lions allready, too easy and like shooting fish in a barrell, have moved on to taking on cars worthy of my time (F6).

[stevanford]

Originally Posted by xisled

HSV already have a car that would smash the current GT.
They have had it for a few years now.

It is a W427. 370kw.

HSV have to power to smash the GT.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNwsz6RSB4s

&

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4YeHu5Qw3o

[ED Classic]

Originally Posted by xisled

HSV already have a car that would smash the current GT.
They have had it for a few years now.

It is a W427. 370kw.

HSV have to power to smash the GT.

Nice keyboard warrior work, but even if being "serious" a 100 grand clubby is a "serious" price tag. that engine cost huge $

[40RDT]

Originally Posted by xisled

HSV already have a car that would smash the current GT.
They have had it for a few years now.

It is a W427. 370kw.

HSV have to power to smash the GT.

The only place a w427 would smash a GT would be round a track

[dimka100]

GM has been good at keeping details about the future Gen V V8 engines under wraps, however numerous technologies to appear in the future engine family have been leaked due to various engine plant investment announcements made ...

Expect Gen V to feature direct injection, E85 compatibility, some form of variable valve timing (yes it will still stay as a push-rod design), a more lightweight construction, some reduction in capacity ...

As for GM supercharged V8s, well they have been available for ages now in the various models available in the USA, and yes these engines make tons of power. But whether HSV will decide to fit them locally or not is a totally different questions that is mostly driven my market economics and demand rather than pure technical capability ...

[burnz]

HSV has their engine slotted, and it's remains N/A.

LSA/LS9 were tested but were eliminated.

[dimka100]

So you think they gonna get a larger capacity of the NA Gen V?

Originally Posted by burnz

HSV has their engine slotted, and it's remains N/A.

LSA/LS9 were tested but were eliminated.

[superroo]

Originally Posted by burnz

HSV has their engine slotted, and it's remains N/A.

The base engine yes, but other models.........


Cheers

[burnz]

holden stays the same.

hsv has other things..

[pursuit2359]

Sounds as though HSV are developing supercharged engines for the forthcoming F-Series range. And LSA seems to be the most likely candidate: http://www.wikicars.net.au/news.php#...rticle&pno=116

I guess it's possible that HSV could be working on a supercharger kit for the existing E-Series, but it seems unlikely (to me, at least) that they'd do something like this so late in the development cycle.

The GoAuto article referred to is also available here: http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...257A920018D550

Any thoughts?

[dimka100]

I’m pretty sure that both Holden and HSV will be keeping the future V8 details under wraps until next year’s NASCAR when they will be unveiling the VF commodore with a big bang!

It’s also interesting to note that while some basic manufacturing details have been previously released regarding production lines in the USA for the Gen V engines, at this stage no actual cars or engine figures have been revealed to the public.

[pursuit2359]

Originally Posted by dimka100

I’m pretty sure that both Holden and HSV will be keeping the future V8 details under wraps until next year’s NASCAR when they will be unveiling the VF commodore with a big bang!

In the words of T.S. Eliot...

This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.

[XBROO]

Wow when is this all going to stop? Every new model has to be more powerful then the previous one. I wonder if we're headed for another supercar scare?

[mik]

Originally Posted by XBROO

Wow when is this all going to stop? Every new model has to be more powerful then the previous one. I wonder if we're headed for another supercar scare?

not gonna happen imo, these big bangers are very safe and capable machines, probably more capable and safe than many family hacks with 1/4 the horse power, lets face it the 4 foot nothing house wife could drive any of these current factory big power cars and never know about or use the performance on tap.
the demise of the big horse modern engine car will be running cost , and it`s happening already, and govco won`t have to do a thing.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by XBROO

Wow when is this all going to stop? Every new model has to be more powerful then the previous one. I wonder if we're headed for another supercar scare?

Wont happen ........ back in the day they really only had to worry about Falcon, Holden & Chrysler of the time. If govco stepped in ....... do they ban all super cars and other models from entering AUS? M5, AMG, AUDI, etc. Just to many models and what limit would this be based on? Different era so dont worry.

By the way ...... HSV beat FPV, FPV then beats HSV. WIN WIN!!!

[FPVGT500]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

Can't help but wonder how much power does a family car REALLY need?

You can never have too much power.......

[ivorya]

Download the latest Goauto Mag and u'll find this;

HSV IN CHARGE
Super-fast supercharged V8 muscle-car caught testing as ‘F Series’ on horizon
By RON HAMMERTON
A TELLTALEwhine from beneath the disguised nose of this Holden Special Vehicles (HSV) engineering mule under test in Victoria gives the best
indication yet that Holden’s hot shop is working on the fastest, most powerful mass-production road car ever to wear the lion badge.
Although HSV steadfastly declines to comment on its future-model program,
GoAuto believes this current-generation HSV E Series ClubSport is running a new-generation General Motors supercharged V8 – most likely the same blown 432kW/754Nm 6.2-litre LSA engine as America’s Chevrolet Camaro ZL1. A slightly lower-output (415kW/747Nm) version also appears in the Cadillac CTS-V, which is still enough to make it the most powerful engine in Cadillac’s history.The LSA V8 is thought to be the frontrunner for the HSV ‘F Series’ due either in late 2013 or early 2014, boosting power and torque over HSV’s current 325kW/550Nm normally aspirated V8 in the flagship GTS and Grange models by more than 30 per cent.
In the Camaro ZL1, the engine blasts the Australian-engineered coupe from zero to 100km/h in about four seconds – at least a second faster than the current HSV GTS (5.3 seconds) and rival Ford Performance Vehicles
GT (5.2 seconds) – and on to a top speed of 294km/h.Chevrolet claims the Camaro ZL1 achieved a supercar-like 7.41-minute lap of Germany’s Nurburgring Nordschleife circuit in production form earlier this year.
The next-generation HSV range will be based on the new Holden VF
Commodore that is due in showrooms about the middle of 2013 and which will be exported to the US as the Chevrolet SS Performance.Like the Commodore, the Camaro is built on the Australian-developed Zeta architecture, which is set to get major refinements for the VF
Commodore, including lighter panels and suspension components.
The new HSV F Series is set to share the same weight reduction technologies as the VF Commodore and Chevrolet SS.Some of these enhancements have already found their way on to the Camaro ZL1, which boasts an aluminium bonnet and electric-assisted power steering.
While thinly disguised VF Commodores are out and about on Australian roads in the final stages of development for next year’s launch, HSV still appears to be in powertrain test and calibration mode using this current-generation car.Despite the car-bra disguise, the spy photo on page 1 reveals telltale indications of cutouts in the front fascia, opening up the grille for greater air flow into the engine for items such as an engine oil cooler, in line with the Camaro ZL1 which has a much wider lower aperture in the lower front fascia than the standard car.The aluminium-block LSA engine
is said to be a development of the current LS3 engine used by HSV – and
Chevrolet in US cars such as Corvette.The LSA version is pumped by a
Roots-style sixth-generation Eaton supercharger sitting in the ‘V’ of the
engine, drawing air through a low-restriction air filter.The balanced and lightweight engine internals include high-strength pistons, each with individual oil squirters for maximum cooling.The engine drives the rear wheels via a choice of a beefed-up Tremec six-speed manual gearbox – capable of coping with 30 per cent more torque than the unit used in current HSV models – or the latest Hydra-Matic six-speed automatic with three drive modes for normal, sport and ‘manual’ styles. Although the GM-supplied pictures of the Camaro ZL1 interior show no signs of steering-wheel-mounted paddle shifters, GoAuto understands that Chevrolet SS test cars under development in Australia have such quick-shift devices with the automatic transmission.
The hot Camaro’s drivetrain has also been strengthened to handle the
extra oomph, with a bigger limited-slip differential and asymmetrical half-shafts – a 60mm hollow steel shaft on one side and a 33mm solid shaft on the other to “minimise the chance of wheel hop”.
Like current HSV cars, Brembo brakes are on offer, with six-piston stoppers on the front grabbing 370mm-diameter discs.And also like current HSV cars, the Camaro ZL1 has a bi-modal exhaust, magnetic ride control (but the latest generation) and launch control system for rapid getaways, but again only on the manual-gearbox-equipped model.If the engine makes it into series production at HSV, it will eclipse the company’s previous most powerful production car, 2008’s limited-edition 375kW/640Nm 7.0-litre W427.
Only 138 W427s were built out of a proposed run of 427 units.

[Rodge]

^^ Still not shaking in my boots. Talk on the LS1 Forums is this will only be for the GTS and will cost north of $100K.

So lets have a look at last time HSV did a north of $100K vehicle, the W427 which was claimed to make 375 Kw's yet many only ran 290 something on dyno's for a ~ 22% loss from crankshaft to rear wheels.

Applying the same 22 % loss to the above claimed output of 432 kw's indicates ~337 rwkw's...hmmm about the same as some stock SC FPV's are making then.
And that's before we even talk about the fact that the Sc engine in the FPV's is across the board and available for under $50K in the GS (as a demo), tune and some proper brakes and you've got a 380 rwkw a beast for under $55K.

His, (modded) and hers (stock) SC FPV's for less than a SC HSV

[1TUFFUTE]

did i get this right...
holden pushed the VF release date to march and will use the current v8s that are in the VEs till later in the year in the new VF model when the 5.5 is passed in, and passed emissions tests. At some stage soon thereafter... All ss models and lower hsvs will use the 5.5 and the LSA supercharged engine for the GTS.
Did i miss anything????? Oh yeah...100k+GTS

And an update for anyone who thinks the overated w427 is anything but overpriced and undersold(sorry..a bit harsh i know)....the new GT Rspec destroys the w427 performance figures..and thats with just the same power, suspension upgrades and wider tyres....woot woot. I am DIEING FOR SOME TRACK TIMES FOR THIS RSPEC GT so bad...hurry up allready.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by xisled

HSV already have a car that would smash the current GT.
They have had it for a few years now.

It is a W427. 370kw.

HSV have to power to smash the GT.

lucky you posted this a month ago..we have the R SPEC now.

We all know from the facts above...HSV either overstate engine power or loose alot through drivline

and FPV GTs are massively understated powerwise

oh and SMASH was a pretty overconfident word to use...just ask GT 335 owners

[Motorbreath310]

Once the R-Spec upgrades are made standard across the lineup and Ford do something with the interior (black headlining as standard? please? it makes a big difference) there will hardly be a market for a 100k-plus HSV. Only the die hards who can afford them will buy them. And those few are probably once bitten with their W427's.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by Motorbreath310

Once the R-Spec upgrades are made standard across the lineup and Ford do something with the interior (black headlining as standard? please? it makes a big difference) there will hardly be a market for a 100k-plus HSV. Only the die hards who can afford them will buy them. And those few are probably once bitten with their W427's.

your right tho..they seriously dont have to do anything serious with power for along time..nothing hard for them at least. And looks like the suspension and tyres is sorted for them so all thats left for them to do is teck stuff and interior remodeling. Almost perfect isnt it. Sounds like some killer GTs on the horizon very soon, very easily. Not that we seriously have that much to complain about tho.