The ETS (Extra Tax Scheme) has been DEFEATED - Page 2

outback_ute · 02-12-2009, 07:00 PM

I particularly liked Kevin Rudd's "this week" speech - sounded like a used car salesman with a special deal for "today only"

Romulus · 02-12-2009, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodderz

Penny Wong seems to be trying to make Abbott feel guilty, yet she's not even mentioned anything about it other than "it's our biggest threat in our lifetime". What a good excuse to beat more money out of us.

"Look, Sadam has WMD's. Here, there, everywhere! Look at our evidence, it's overwhelming proof he has them!"

Anyone see the similarities between the kok-and-bull story spun to us then, and what the government is trying to tell us now in relation to "climate change/global warming"?

Governments are very selective as to what sources they will use. Penny Wong has already admitted that the government does not believe the "Climategate" emails from East Anglia are credible, and believe it is the work of deniars and sceptics.

It's up to Abbott and Joyce to convince the public the ETS/CPRS is a scam. The difference between the War on Terror and the current Global Warming issue is for once we have an opposition who openly will question sources rather than take them as gospel.

ILLaViTaR · 02-12-2009, 07:09 PM

Woah it's like Labour is now liberal and liberal is now labour.

4Vman · 02-12-2009, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

Woah it's like Labour is now liberal and liberal is now labour.

How so? i would have thought this initiative then outcome was very politically "traditional"....

vztrt · 02-12-2009, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

How so? i would have thought this initiative then outcome was very politically "traditional"....

Unless he meant that the lib party is in the same mess labour was before rudd took leadership.

FPV+fteT3 · 02-12-2009, 08:12 PM

This tax is not going to fix the problem the world has slowly been heating up since the last ice age and that is a fact, all the govt wants to do here is scam more money from us. The world has been changing on its own for eons how can a new tax control the climate? The proposition as I understand it would see the biggest polluters compensated or excluded from the tax and the average person once again picking up the tab. What are the pollies smoking and how mentally conditioned do they think the general public are to swallow that crap?........I guess the majority believe if you do 10k's over the limit you will die in a fiery crash........

rodderz · 02-12-2009, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVS Super Pursuit

It's up to Abbott and Joyce to convince the public the ETS/CPRS is a scam. The difference between the War on Terror and the current Global Warming issue is for once we have an opposition who openly will question sources rather than take them as gospel.

Agreed, they also need to pose the hard questions to Labour during question time or press interviews. Ask them what proof they have, how much it will cost, what will happen to our country if signed then taken to the UN and signed off there....

what sort of spin would they put on their answers.

Saraco · 02-12-2009, 11:22 PM

I thought the kimberly was always f...ing hot!!!

Saraco · 02-12-2009, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onfire

Once it was ' Global warming ' then it became ' Climate change ' due to no significant data to support the concept.. next, they'll call it ' climate modification ' and try to sell the idea of building a ' cooler ' tomorrow.

And before GLOBAL WARMING it was called THE GREENHOUSE EFFECT remember!?

Saraco · 02-12-2009, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

How so? i would have thought this initiative then outcome was very politically "traditional"....

Yes ALP have always been socialist radicals while LIBERAL are more conservative.

Walt Kowalski · 03-12-2009, 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redauxr8

Im 50-50, really, but seriously come to the Kimberley in WA and feel the heat, this has been the hottest year of my life, 40 degrees for the last 2-3 weeks and no rain so far.... I suppose this makes it easier for me to believe in "climate change"

Once upon a time there was an "Ice Age"

And then, as the world started to warm, the ice started to melt.

If you believe in the Rudd/Wong/IPCC theory then you believe it must have been Fred Flintstone and his family that started the end of the Ice Age.

Its hot in the Kimberly. Wow.

Talk to some old guys up there. I am sure it's happened before. Like most years.

Have a drink at the Marble Bar hotel and ask the regulars. Its nothing new.

True story. In August this year my wife and I spent a week on Pittwater. It was so warm that we were able to waterski. I said to my wife. "It[font='Verdana','sans-serif'] reminds me of a year when I lived at Agnes Banks. It was HOT in winter but I distinctly remember having to light the fire on my fathers birthday on 6th December that year[/font]"

Well guess what? Sydney has been really cold some days this week. Just like back then.

Weather extremes happen.

That's why most older people do not believe in GW or man made CC.

They have seen it all before.

Don't believe politicians who say "[font='Verdana','sans-serif']its global warming[/font]" when it's a hot spell.

They are opportunists with an agenda.

I know, I used to be an advisor to a very Labor prominent Premier who is still a leading Labor light.

Don't be naive.

Walt Kowalski · 03-12-2009, 05:16 AM

double post

Walt Kowalski · 03-12-2009, 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GK

This is only one round of many that we'll need to win to stop this extra tax.

Once again GK you speak wisely

MO · 03-12-2009, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

Woah it's like Labour is now liberal and liberal is now labour.

And has been ever since the Keating years.

**TUF_302** · 03-12-2009, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

Common sense is rare these days, I'll take this as a win.

Here here!, Although i think stupidity will win in the end

:

trippytaka · 03-12-2009, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Great result.. flawed logic about "making the polluters pay", all they'd do is pass the cost onto consumers, plus margin.

Agreed.

ETS = 100% failure of policy. It was never going to do anything but increase cost of living

Human caused climate change = 100% Real. It's happening and a threat. But the OZ ETS was never going to do much about climate change.

(waits for the sceptics to start their assault. Tip: Don't bother, I have read countless reports on both sides of the fence... have you?)

redauxr8 · 03-12-2009, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svov88

I thought the kimberly was always f...ing hot!!!

Yes its been hot for the last 21 years of my whole life but it is Extremely F...ing hot now.... And no, i havent experienced this kind of heat for my entire 21 years.

Suppose it keeps you city slickers away anyway

:

ltd · 03-12-2009, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trippytaka

I have read countless reports on both sides of the fence... have you?)

Yes I have. Further, I have also read the climategate leaked emails, and I find it particularly telling that Michael Mann resigned from the CRU yesterday.

Whatsmore, even Al Gore has changed his tune and is now blaming methane and particulate matter; not so much CO2. If you've read countless reports, search Jim Spiegelman from NASA and what he is in it for, then also search the emergence of carbon futures traders that have popped up overnight.

Finally, as you're adament that we have warming (although the data doesn't support this), please explain to me how Mars enjoyed the same cool and warm periods as the earth. Do Martians drive V8's too?

Do you know a guy called Torbirdie? Just asking.

Rastus · 03-12-2009, 06:47 PM

Yep, thank common sense that it was defeated! All it was is another tax. Everything that breathed out carbon dioxide, f@rted methane, & every vehicle would've been taxed on the basis of some magic pollution scale.
"I'm sorry mate, but your old V8 XY is killing babies, and we have to tax you 10 times as much as that new car there, based on how much CO2 it's pumping out!"

:
And I'm amazed at the media coverage! Left leaning no doubt, saying that the Libs are delusional for what.....BLOCKING A TAX!! Seems Ruddy can do no wrong in their eyes. :newangel:
All he wanted was to go to the international climate change bla bla forum & skite about how he's already got a plan set in concrete. Political grandstanding at it's best!

yanknbank · 03-12-2009, 07:08 PM

Climate change has been happening here on planet Earth for the last 5,000,000,000 years and there's nothing that Krudd and Pwong can do to change that. The CPRS that they were trying to foist upon us will not change the climate, nor will it lower the global temperature.

Historically the Earth has been warmer on average than it currently is, in fact it's unusual to have ice sheets at both poles at the same time. Based on that fact, one could argue that at present the Earth is cooler than it normally is. I'm absolutely certain that the Earth will warm and that at some stage there will be a change in sea levels. It will happen. But it won't be due to, in any meaningful measurement, to human activity.

The ETS? A massive tax churn through the economy for absolutely no gain for the environment. None, zero, zilch. I'm all for protecting our environment, but when the government is so dishonest with it's policy and with the alledged outcomes that are supposed flow from it, it's something I personally can't support.

Thankyou Tony Abbott and no thanks to those in the parliamenty Labor party who were too gutless to make their personal views on the climate known.
Our dear leader has suggested that climate change is one of the great moral challenges of our time. Penny Wong yesterday suggested that climate change policy, as promoted by the government, has been worked on for a decade.

That being the case, why did the Labor party between 1996 and 2006 only ask four questions (that's right only four) on climate change in the parliament?
That pretty much sums up what they really think about climate change. It's all about votes and nothing else.

TK-421 · 03-12-2009, 07:10 PM

yeah unfortunatley this tax blocking is seen in a bad way, its as if the media are trying harder to make 'us' accept it or were doomed.

Now i beleive in local pollution ie georges river being turned to crap or sydneys smog during peak hour its these things that need addressing before we go 'global' and try to superman the world.

Still this tax made no absolute sense whatsoever, lining the pockets of the gov aint changing the climate soon.

All conspiracies aside tho this is just like alcho pop tax, gst and fuel tax just a money grabber .. oh no they know i know.... must fit tinfoil hat... they can read my thoughts... they can track me through rfid chips....

rodderz · 03-12-2009, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EF4.0

its as if the media are trying harder to make 'us' accept it or were doomed.

Besides Andrew Bolt from the Herald Sun I havent yet seen any media looking at the non-ETS side, yet the general public are going more and more against it each day. Abbott and his followers/party are getting roasted during interviews as to why they didnt pass it?

Then you see today's headline where Rudd is saying how liberal will bring back workchoices- lol nice diversion from the current topic he is losing support for.

Keepleft · 03-12-2009, 07:28 PM

Need to get Dr Jensen onto the LIB front bench, doesn't tolerate bullpoo.

ltd · 04-12-2009, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodderz

Besides Andrew Bolt from the Herald Sun I havent yet seen any media looking at the non-ETS side, yet the general public are going more and more against it each day. Abbott and his followers/party are getting roasted during interviews as to why they didnt pass it?

Then you see today's headline where Rudd is saying how liberal will bring back workchoices- lol nice diversion from the current topic he is losing support for.

Notice how the diversions mount up? Another boatload of asylum seekers was intercepted yesterday (now 50 this year) by none other than the oceanic viking, and all we hear about is the alleged reintroduction of workchoices. Seems the government never really got out of election mode. Thankfully the hollow threat of a double dissolution for failure to pass the ETS bill in February has already been hosed down by Tony, who has stated that he's happy to go to an election on the issue. Wonder what the nerd is going to do at Hopenchangen now without his big shiny ETS to flash around? That seat on the UN security council is getting further and further away.

Romulus · 06-12-2009, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd

Notice how the diversions mount up? Another boatload of asylum seekers was intercepted yesterday (now 50 this year) by none other than the oceanic viking, and all we hear about is the alleged reintroduction of workchoices. Seems the government never really got out of election mode. Thankfully the hollow threat of a double dissolution for failure to pass the ETS bill in February has already been hosed down by Tony, who has stated that he's happy to go to an election on the issue. Wonder what the nerd is going to do at Hopenchangen now without his big shiny ETS to flash around? That seat on the UN security council is getting further and further away.

That's right. They have to stay in that mode because of the furfy they've sold the public. Remember the "making it easier for working families" slogan used at every opportunity? This is the same mob that wants to slug every householder an extra $1100 per year via the ETS.

I believe KRudd is in for a real challenge next year.

snappy · 06-12-2009, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVS Super Pursuit

That's right. They have to stay in that mode because of the furfy they've sold the public. Remember the "making it easier for working families" slogan used at every opportunity? This is the same mob that wants to slug every householder an extra $1100 per year via the ETS.

I believe KRudd is in for a real challenge next year.

That $1100 is only power costs, what about food because producer's/store's prices have gone up then fuel prices .
Try a name somthing you have bought that has not left some carbon footprint.

MO · 06-12-2009, 08:41 PM

I can see a lot of ppl that can, will start their own vegie patches c/w chooks even communal ones. Some will opt to go solar on power and maybe opt off the grid. Plus the rest of the flow on affects, oh another, home brew, watch the number of home stills for spirits go up.

The general flow on affect will decrease some provider companies profits which in turn will mean a hike in charges.

I reckon there has to be a lot more research/thought go into everything yet before anything set in concrete can be passed down. Just some food for thought guys.

4Vman · 06-12-2009, 08:47 PM

Wait for rain water consumption tax if you collect rainwater.... all those who claimed the tank subsidy inadvertantly signed up for that tax....

snappy · 06-12-2009, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Wait for rain water consumption tax if you collect rainwater.... all those who claimed the raigran tank subsidy inadvertantly signed up for that tax....

That's allready in in some councils my aunt/uncle have to pay for the water there dams catch.

MO · 06-12-2009, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Wait for rain water consumption tax if you collect rainwater.... all those who claimed the tank subsidy inadvertantly signed up for that tax....

Good point never saw that one!