Should the police have charged her? - Page 2

Boss 260 Ute · 15-08-2006, 07:37 AM

Sorry to hear 'bout ya Dad. She should be charged with reckless driving...

AC/DC · 15-08-2006, 08:36 AM

Very hard to say without hearing both sides of the story. Its also hard to actually charge someone with dangerous driving when they were reversing out of a car-park.

I am sure that if you sister or mum done that, ,and it obviously was an accident and she didnt mean it, , then you wouldnt want her charged by police.

Saying that, , hope the old man gets better ! seems he was in the wrong place at the wrong time !

AC/DC

XA Coupsta · 15-08-2006, 09:35 AM

I'm really sorry that happened to your Father. My sincere wishes for his recovery - and I hope you are going ok too after being called to the scene and finding your Dad like that. Would be upsetting for me.

Im no legal expert but I would believe some sort of charge would be applicable surely.

Good luck with it.

banarcus · 15-08-2006, 09:35 AM

If thats in NSW then the driver responsible will be charged given the busted leg etc your dad suffered. As for the other states I cant comment. Hope your dad gets full function of his leg mate.

BA_Turbs · 15-08-2006, 10:30 AM

And here's the problem with the internet. What we don't know, we'll make up.

This happened in Victoria. The police do NOT have to attend every injury collision here. I know it is the case in NSW, not in Vic.

The girl went to the police station and reported the accident. It is implied in the original post she went there shortly after the accident. Within 3 hours of a collision police in Victoria have a power to PBT (preliminary Breath Test) someone involved. If she reported the accident not long after it happened, she would have been breath tested.

As faqr as pain and suffereing and loss of earning, how does anyone here other than Steve know how his old man has suffered? Australia is the (per head) most litigous country on the planet. This is why. It occurred on a road, involving a vehicle, as Steve said, it meets the criteria of the TAC. let them do their end of things, THEN if there are still problems look at other forms of recovering costs or seeking compensation.

This isn't an assault, its a collision. Yes, it would seem the girl should be charged, but assault? She didn't line Steve's dad up and go for it! There's people suggesting offences that don't exist in Victoria, let alone in this country! If you don't know, why make it up?

Steve, did the police actually state that she hasn't been charged with anything or that she won't be charged with anything? This is obviously a significant difference.

Steve, I, like many others on here probably, have been through the TAC claim thing. My experience was a posituve one, stays in private hospitals, physio for a long time afterwards, paid my wages when I couldn't work. Was well looked after. My injury effected my life for a good three months. No doubt your dad's will be longer, but hopefully his interaction with TAC will be alright like mine was.

Good luck with everything!

PS - Come on armchair lawyers, start flaming me

Nemesis737 · 15-08-2006, 10:45 AM

I recon she should have to pay all fee's, costs etc., as well as a fine, however we weren't there and therefore don't know all the facts. I hope that your old man heals up as good as before, but I really don't think that she aimed for him and was purely an accident.

If, god forbid, she did kill or really injure him (loss of limbs, sight, hearing etc) I'd say that she deserves alot worse, but as long as your father heals fine and there is no long lasting injury or he's out of pocket... If it were my father that was in his position I'd prob. feel the same way, but as an outsider I can see things from both points of view. Good luck with your old man healing up well and you'll know what you wanna do!

P.S. I'll prob be flammed for that, but its only my opinion.

4.9 EF Futura · 15-08-2006, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BA_Turbs

PS - Come on armchair lawyers, start flaming me

Why invite flaming onto the forum??? Great post - but poor form there.

To the original poster - very sorry to hear that harm came to your old man. Hope the TAC sorts out all the petty paperwork stuff and you guys can concentrate on getting dad back into the game.

drcook · 15-08-2006, 10:53 AM

first of all, hope your dads ok and hope he gets better soon.

i agree with ba turbs that the police would have breath tested her when she went to the police station and have you or your dad requested that she be charged with anything? did the police give you the option of laying charges?.

Also as far as charging with assault, the incident wasnt intentional so i dont think assault can be laid on her.

Also as far as the law goes (and im only assuming), if your dad is standing on the road then, technically, he has a portion of responsibility to watch out for other cars. It sound harsh, and i dont condone what a stupid bit of driving she did, but technically and in regards to law, she may not be able to be charged with a driving offence if your dads not expected to be standing behind her.

Look at it this way - if your in bumper to bumper traffic at a set of lights and someone is crossing the road between cars and walks behind your car, and for some reason you have to reverse a bit (say the person in front of you overshot the intersection and was reversing back) and you hit the walker, you wouldnt be charged with anything because, technically, he shouldnt have been there.

Its a sucky situation.

pauljh74 · 15-08-2006, 10:56 AM

From what I can recall, the first few hundred dollars of medical costs is paid by the at fault party, the rest by the TAC. Look at it this way - how many people are being fined for doing a few kms an hour over the speed limit without causing accidents? Then you have an accident where the driver was careless and caused significant injury to another person, and the cops are willing to let it slide? I agree that she should face a charge of negligent/careless but not dangerous driving or assault. She was careless, not intent on hitting someone.

If I were to do something similar I wouldn't be surprised to cop such a charge. This will effect her driving record and therefore insurance - resulting in the driver taking more care in future. It will be a black mark against her - but it is deserved.

As for the pedestrian being "on the road" and being expected to look out for cars. If you're standing at the boot of a parked car, walking around to the driver's door and you get hit by a car reversing, then it's likely the driver was sitting very close to the parked cars to begin with and that the pedestrian wasn't wandering into the traffic, he was initially standing close to the back of his own car, was probably there before the car went past initially and it is reasonable to expect the driver to look where they are going as well. If the pedestrian jumped out from between the parked cars straight into the path of a moving car, then you would blame the pedestrian.

max · 15-08-2006, 10:59 AM

I hope your dad is OK Steve. Were there any witnesses? I think the matter warrants further investigation. Your father was effectively a pedestrian. Injury requiring hospitalisation resulted from him being struck by this woman driving her vehicle. The cause and circumstances will need to be established by police and insurers. Subsequently the driver should face any charges arising from a conclusion being reached that she was at fault.

Quicklier · 15-08-2006, 12:42 PM

Hi Steve,
Real bad hearing what has happened to your old man. I hope he wasn't too shaken up and recovers.

I certainly think police should have attended the scene. I know that it is a requirement (in Vic) for police to attend accidents where somebody has been injured. The ambulance officers should really have told the driver to stay and had their dispatch centre call for the local bluey's(still assuming Vic) to attend.

If the driver was in a RAV4 (or similar), it's quite possible she didn't see your Dad whilst turning their head and looking out the back window (you should have a sit in one at your local Toyota Dealership). They have massive blindspots that really require 3 good hard stares in each mirror AND a look over the shoulder, then a very slow reverse (to be wary of small children). The driver was not driving according to her vehicle and was lucky to have "only" injured your dad.

I won't get the guitar out and play the "ban 4WD's from cities" tune as I think there are plenty of people with an opinion on that. The incident certainly highlights driver attitude particuarly in shopping precincts where parking is a "challenge" to obtain.

I really do hope your dad makes a full recovery and remains confident to visit the shops again. Being knocked down can be very painfull mentally, not just physically.

Oh, for the record, she should have been charged with "driving without due care", reversing isn't wreckless, but doing so without looking is another matter.

ED Classic · 15-08-2006, 01:18 PM

Yeah Id say the sob story helped her cause aswell as a reluctance to do any unnecesary paper work by the police. They arent forced to meet quotars with this like speeding fines and with a speeding fine if you challenge it its your word against theres but in this she could get up in court and pleade innocent with the right magistrate the police would look like stunned mullets when she gets off even though its 100% her fault. If it were a bloke with long hair, a beard and tattoos it may have been different...Sad fact of life...If Shappele Corby was a scruffy looking bloke there wouldnt have been half the support for her innocence.

Belle_Hemmi · 15-08-2006, 01:26 PM

Sorry to hear about your dad. Hope he recovers well. She should be charged. If she was any type of person she would offer to help in any way possible.

Steve · 15-08-2006, 02:28 PM

I can't remember the officer's exact words, but it was to the effect that they "won't be charging her". This indicates to me that there is an applicable charge that they've chosen not to apply. As for standing in the path of traffic, there was about a meter and a half between Dad's boot and the on coming traffic; enough for a pedestrian to walk and access their car boots but not enough to properly fit a car. She was pretty hard up against the parked cars.
Another thing I don't think I've mentioned is that in her report to the police, she claimed that she didn't see him yet she told them that he had been crossing the road illegally (which he hadn't). She either hit without seeing him, in which case she would have no idea if he had crossed the road or not, or she saw him crossing the road and hit him knowingly. Which one of the two is it???

XRchic · 15-08-2006, 03:01 PM

Steve, I really hope your Dad is ok and that he recovers. Try and focus on your Dad and his recovery and perhaps a little less on retribution. Im a nurse and I have seen this sort of thing before. He has some fairly serious injuries, especially for his age and he is going to need a lot of time to recover, rehabilitate and come to terms with it all on a mental level. However, people can be quite resilient and thinking positive can go a long way!

I think your unintentional mistake was to come on here and ask regular forums members for advice on basically a legal issue: should she be charged? You are asking people with largely no legal background, with minimal knowledge of the facts and who were not there, to comment and give their opinions. This was going to bring out all the emotional "armchair lawyers".... it is just asking for trouble.

I am a lawyer, and there is no way that I would comment on this sort of thing on a public forum either way, as I do not have enough material facts to be able to offer a well reasoned, non emotional decision based on ALL the facts. If you want to find out whether or not she should be charged, then I suggest you guys go and get some legal advice. MOST of what has been posted in this thread is emotional and sympathetic (yes, sympathy is good) but not much of it is useful comment. Some people have made some good points. However the large amount of silly comments as a result of lack of knowledge is laughable. Not laughable that people dont have the background - that is most of the population. What is ridiculous is that they still see fit to offer advice...

I hope that your Dad recovers as best he can with all the help he can get and that you resolve the issues with the girl who hit you one way or the other. I really do feel for your Dad and I know how upset I would be if he were my Dad - I would be devastated.

Take care mate.

cheeza5 · 15-08-2006, 03:02 PM

Sorry to hear about you dad, i hope he makes a full recovery. keep at the police eventually they will charge her. or if not then go to court and get back the costs of the stay in hospital.

Hope your dad gets better soon.

BA_Turbs · 15-08-2006, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quicklier

Hi Steve,
I know that it is a requirement (in Vic) for police to attend accidents where somebody has been injured.

Without starting a Yes/No arguement, I think you will find if you were to call a Victorian Police Station and confirm it, the obligation of the police is to take reports of any collision that comes to their attention where:

1- Someone is injured.
2- Property is damaged but there is no owner present to report it to.
3- Where the drivers have not exchanged details.

There is no requirement for them to attend. They may attend most, but nothing, other than commoin sense, says they must. In NSW they must. Ambulance paramedics hav eno more power than you or I to tell someone what to do, nor is it their job.

Quote:

Oh, for the record, she should have been charged with "driving without due care", reversing isn't wreckless, but doing so without looking is another matter.

There is no such offence in Victoria. The correct charge is Careless Driving, as Redrum said. Failing that, it is a ticket for "Reverse When Unsafe".

Steve, what shops had your old man just been in? Where they on the same side of the road as his car was parked? Did anyone witness what happened? The police may only have two conflicting versions of what happened and may not be able to make a finding strongly enough in one direction.

drcook · 15-08-2006, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve

As for standing in the path of traffic, there was about a meter and a half between Dad's boot and the on coming traffic; enough for a pedestrian to walk and access their car boots but not enough to properly fit a car.

not argueing with you mate, im just thinking in regards to written law.
i wouldnt think written law would recognise this area between the parked car and where traffic drives. your either on the road or off the road. technically your dad was on the road, therefore the police may not be able to charge her. if she reversed up onto the footpath and struck your dad, that would be another story. you get what i mean?

Redrum · 15-08-2006, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRchic

I think your unintentional mistake was to come on here and ask regular forums members for advice on basically a legal issue: should she be charged? You are asking people with largely no legal background, with minimal knowledge of the facts and who were not there, to comment and give their opinions. This was going to bring out all the emotional "armchair lawyers".... it is just asking for trouble.

I am a lawyer, and there is no way that I would comment on this sort of thing on a public forum either way, as I do not have enough material facts to be able to offer a well reasoned, non emotional decision based on ALL the facts. If you want to find out whether or not she should be charged, then I suggest you guys go and get some legal advice. MOST of what has been posted in this thread is emotional and sympathetic (yes, sympathy is good) but not much of it is useful comment. Some people have made some good points. However the large amount of silly comments as a result of lack of knowledge is laughable. Not laughable that people dont have the background - that is most of the population. What is ridiculous is that they still see fit to offer advice...

You are right about emotions entering this thread. But there is no harm to ask members here for advice. The thread starter is upset,angry and has some questions. He wants some opinions on what he can do or what people generally think. Obviously speaking to people in the legal profession can assist, but maybe he cannot afford the bill. And forum members are not all as stupid as some may think.

XRchic · 15-08-2006, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redrum

You are right about emotions entering this thread. But there is no harm to ask members here for advice. The thread starter is upset,angry and has some questions. He wants some opinions on what he can do or what people generally think. Obviously speaking to people in the legal profession can assist, but maybe he cannot afford the bill. And forum members are not all as stupid as some may think.

I can understand Steve wanting to know more about it and perhaps in a way, seeking uninformed opinions about the incident as a whole - this is a forum where we do discuss things like this... I dont have a problem with that, or the emotion for that matter, as I find it very sad and upsetting myself.

Its just that when the emotion and the legal opinions combine that I have a problem with, when some of the comments are inaccurate and misleading. I just hope Steve realises this, thats all. And getting legal opinions from people on the forums is in no way going to replace getting legal advice - which I agree is costly.

And I agree with you that not all forums members are stupid, far from it. There are plenty on here who may be able to offer good advice, and some posts on here have been quite good in my opinion, for what thats worth. However, some people have commented about ASSAULT??!!! Come on, that cant be serious? That is the sort of thing Im talking about... assault with a deadly weapon? Hmmmmm. That sort of comment was what I was referring to....

If people dont know things, they should not make them up... that is all I really meant.

Redrum · 15-08-2006, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRchic

If people dont know things, they should not make them up... that is all I really meant.

This is true and some members do spin **** in their posts, pms etc. But this is what the internet is all about.............

Steve · 15-08-2006, 04:51 PM

Once again guys, thanks for the input. I can afford the legal advice so that's not an issue, it's just that I'm not going to put Dad through this until he's better. I wanted to get an opinion from others generally and thought perhaps there might have been someone on here that may know the law better than I or someone might have been through something similar. Once Dad is able to deal with this, we'll be discussing it with my solicitor.

As I've said before, I don't want money from this person as the TAC will cover most of the costs. What I would like is for her to be charged with an offence and being a 'P' plater and therefore a "probationary" driver, for her license to be suspended or revoked or at least questioned. Right now I don't care about financial restitution from her as I'm sure she didn't mean to hit him. I'd like for her to learn that if she's in control of a car, she needs to pay attention to her surroundings.

BTW, I detest the way some people, as I saw her do, try to evade their responsibilities by starting the waterworks.

ltd · 15-08-2006, 04:58 PM

xrchic, you said in your post that you are a nurse, then you said you are a lawyer. Not wishing to sound like a stickler here but which are you?
I have done a few years of suburban (compo) and later commercial law and I can tell you that from my experience; in NSW, there is a legal requirement for the police to be in attendance when there is a person seriously injured in a traffic accident.
My advice to get the PIC involved is if the matter was in NSW, and the police where trying to find ways to cover up why they weren't in attendance to take statements from victim/s, witnesses and the perpetrator. Additionally, if you have an accident and are deemed at fault you are charged with negligent driving. Furthermore, if you seriously injure someone in NSW through negligent driving they tack on the "occassioning bodily harm".

Regardless of this girls motive/innocence she is guilty of inflicting serious injuries on the victim. For this she would be charged in NSW irregardless of her circumstances.

As for my advice to pursue the matter legally, it was obvious that Steve is upset however his father is seriously injured and as a result is going to require extensive care and rehabilitation. We also have a limit of 50,000 on the amount that is available for compensation in NSW and as such I was highlighting for steve some of the typical claims made. If this was offensive to people like yourself then I apologise but I have a qualification that allows me to offer some free and generic advice that may allow steve and his father to worry a little less about where the matter could end up.

Oh, and NO I am not a practicing solicitor now.

XRchic · 15-08-2006, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve

Once again guys, thanks for the input. I can afford the legal advice so that's not an issue, it's just that I'm not going to put Dad through this until he's better. I wanted to get an opinion from others generally and thought perhaps there might have been someone on here that may know the law better than I or someone might have been through something similar. Once Dad is able to deal with this, we'll be discussing it with my solicitor.

As I've said before, I don't want money from this person as the TAC will cover most of the costs. What I would like is for her to be charged with an offence and being a 'P' plater and therefore a "probationary" driver, for her license to be suspended or revoked or at least questioned. Right now I don't care about financial restitution from her as I'm sure she didn't mean to hit him. I'd like for her to learn that if she's in control of a car, she needs to pay attention to her surroundings.

BTW, I detest the way some people, as I saw her do, try to evade their responsibilities by starting the waterworks.

Thats a good attitude to have mate - just let your Dad recover first and see how he goes. Then get some good advice on where to go from there, once he is on the mend.

One thing though - I, personally (cant speak for anyone else) would be in tears myself, if I had accidentally backed over any person in a car park, broken their leg and caused them all kinds of injuries. Back when I was that age, on my Ps... if I had done that to someone I would have been GENUINELY upset and actually quite distressed - I would be NOW, if I did that! I was not there, so it is hard to say how the girl felt, but if she was just a normal young girl who did something silly and was careless, I would be very surprised if she turned on the tears only to try and get out of being charged... I could be wrong, but I think a girl like that, in that situation could be quite traumatised by the suffering she had caused your Dad and Im quite sure she wont be getting a good nights sleep any time soon.

I know what she did to your Dad was bad, but I am sure she is feeling absolutely terrible about it, if she is a normal human being. She gets out of it a lot lighter than your Dad, without question... however, I wouldnt have thought that she was as heartless and devious that she would turn on the tears to get out of trouble... they could well have been geniune tears. Making someone else suffer by accident can be quite traumatic. And she did go to the police station herself to report it and she may yet end up being charged.

Im not saying she should evade some kind of responsibility for what she did... Im just saying that dont underestimate how upset she is that she caused this suffering to your Dad, and how much she has learned from all this alone, up to this point.

I caused an accident while I was on m Ps and while I didnt hurt anyone, there was quite a bit of car damage and I was genuinely sorry for my carelessness, I was absolutely remorseful for the damage I had caused to their car (I didnt care about mine) and I was genuinely really distressed. There were no false tears for the police officer's benefit, I can assure you, my emotions were real and I was in shock. And you wouldnt believe how much I learned from that incident and how that has stayed with me to this day. And if I HAD hurt someone, I think all the effects would have been magnified.

Im just speaking about my personal experience though, I dont know what is going through this girl's head at all. Perhaps she could be trying it on, I dont know. Its just something to think about.

XRchic · 15-08-2006, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd

xrchic, you said in your post that you are a nurse, then you said you are a lawyer. Not wishing to sound like a stickler here but which are you?
I have done a few years of suburban (compo) and later commercial law and I can tell you that from my experience; in NSW, there is a legal requirement for the police to be in attendance when there is a person seriously injured in a traffic accident.
My advice to get the PIC involved is if the matter was in NSW, and the police where trying to find ways to cover up why they weren't in attendance to take statements from victim/s, witnesses and the perpetrator. Additionally, if you have an accident and are deemed at fault you are charged with negligent driving. Furthermore, if you seriously injure someone in NSW through negligent driving they tack on the "occassioning bodily harm".

Regardless of this girls motive/innocence she is guilty of inflicting serious injuries on the victim. For this she would be charged in NSW irregardless of her circumstances.

As for my advice to pursue the matter legally, it was obvious that Steve is upset however his father is seriously injured and as a result is going to require extensive care and rehabilitation. We also have a limit of 50,000 on the amount that is available for compensation in NSW and as such I was highlighting for steve some of the typical claims made. If this was offensive to people like yourself then I apologise but I have a qualification that allows me to offer some free and generic advice that may allow steve and his father to worry a little less about where the matter could end up.

Oh, and NO I am not a practicing solicitor now.

Mate, I am both. I have degrees in nursing and law (and other qualifications) and I have worked quite extensively in both fields, and others.

And I was not referring to any specific post of yours in my previous posts... I dont have an issue with people's qualifications at all. There are plenty of people on here with so much knowledge that a qualification is irrelevant. My problem is with people who clearly know NOTHING and then make things up. There are plenty of people on here who would know more about traffic accidents and compensation and such things than myself, and I have said that I would not comment on such things as I do not know enough about them...

If anyone has some real advice, then go for it. I was just seeing some very ill informed posts being held out as advice to a bloke who needs some real advice and who doesnt need to be stuffed around. I also just said that there were too many posts that were emotional, and perhaps assumed things like that the girl was putting on a few tears to get out of being charged... a) no one can say that for sure and b) it makes no difference as to whether she would be charged or not, I wouldnt have thought.

As far as charging the girl is concerned, I wouldnt really have much of an idea whether she should be or not, morally or legally... you know much more about it than I do.

I hope that it does all get sorted out though... the main thing is that Steve's Dad is taken care of and is given the best opportunity to recover as possible.

BA_Turbs · 15-08-2006, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd

in NSW, there is a legal requirement for the police to be in attendance when there is a person seriously injured in a traffic accident.

I think that's what I said? I had assumed it was Victoria as I read TAC. The thought that other states may also use the same name didn't occur to me.

I supose to offer advice we really need to know what state you are in Steve! Otherwise we're all just guessing!

Disco1986 · 15-08-2006, 07:22 PM

ops acidents happen i guess

**Falcon Coupe** · 15-08-2006, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRchic

And I agree with you that not all forums members are stupid, far from it. There are plenty on here who may be able to offer good advice, and some posts on here have been quite good in my opinion, for what thats worth. However, some people have commented about ASSAULT??!!! Come on, that cant be serious? That is the sort of thing Im talking about... assault with a deadly weapon? Hmmmmm. That sort of comment was what I was referring to....

If people dont know things, they should not make them up... that is all I really meant.

Assault:
1. An unlawful threat or attempt to do bodily injury to another.
2. The act or an instance of unlawfully threatening or attempting to injure another.

Nothing lawful about running someone over whether intentional or not.
Sounds like a close match to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

You can't just break someones leg and walk away, assault ?

The question mark = speculation.....(i don't know)
So how is that seen as making something up ?

XA-Coupe · 15-08-2006, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

Assault:
1. An unlawful threat or attempt to do bodily injury to another.
2. The act or an instance of unlawfully threatening or attempting to injure another.

Nothing lawful about running someone over whether intentional or not.
Sounds like a close match to me.

The question mark = speculation.....(i don't know)
So how is that seen as making something up ?

Not an assault in any way shape or form unless it was intentional. Misadventure is a defence to assualt.. this was definitely misadventure.
The worst she would get is a ticket for reverse when unsafe. Hardly worth worrying about.
I hope your dad gets better soon.

wulos · 15-08-2006, 07:41 PM

Let's keep things on the straight & narrow for this thread, eh.
Whilst I DO feel sorry for your oldman in being injured, and hope he mends back to full health as soon as possible. I also feel sorry for the young lass that was behind the wheel at the time.
I won't comment about what the police "should" or "should not" have done as I (nor a lot of the forum readers here) have the entirity of the facts in front of them. I suspect that the young lass in question has learnt her lesson the HARD way.
The law in NSW states that if a person is injured as a result of a motor accident then the police HAVE to be notified. It's a judgement call as to whether charges are laid or not by the police(victim can request charges to be laid also).