Wheels COTY

[Maggot]

Just checked the wheels website..

THis is definately this year.. there were sixteen sub finalists of which the FG was one.

The four announced tonight were

A4
Mitsi evo
Accord euro
Volkswagen Tiguan

:-(

Winner announced tomorrow according to the show.

From teh site
***
Ford FG Falcon
Strong against most of the COTY criteria, the FG was a unanimous nomination. It's important to note that FPV models are considered part of the FG range and will be judged as one model.
***

[Maggot]

Originally Posted by Torxteer

While I do agree with what your saying, isnt it funny how the VE won a couple of years ago with a dinosaur 4spd auto and worst in class V6

What wrong with being a bit patriotic now and then :-) at least it was one of the sixteen and they did look at it.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by vztrt

BMW M3
Ford Mondeo
Mazda 2
Mercedes-Benz C-Class
Skoda Roomster
Volkswagen Eos

Originally Posted by vztrt

You'd be right that was last years finalists. Whoops sorry guys.

Originally Posted by RATT

Wasn't that 2007 COTY?

Yeah thats why I threw the second post up. I couldn't find this yr's list as it said it will be out tomorrow.

[ehast13]

What competition did VE have?

a lot has happened in two years.

the VE at least ESP on everything

Obviously budget didn't extend to esp lpg fg (imo).

Would FG beat VE for COTY - YES
Would VE win 2009 COTY - NO
Tough Year
Didn't pick the A4 or mitsu evo - but geez, accord Euro, mazda 6, tiguan.

That's like being aussie running champion and lining up a agaist carl lewis and ... well ...a couple of other guys who can run really fast

[DoreSlamR]

Here's the cars that are eligible:
ELIGIBLE
Audi A3 Cabriolet
Audi A4
BMW 1 Series Coupe
BMW 1 Series Convertible
BMW X6
Chrysler Grand Voyager
Chrysler Sebring cabrio
Citroën C5
Dodge Journey
Fiat 500
Fiat Ritmo
Ford FG Falcon
Honda Accord
Honda Accord Euro
Honda Jazz
Hyundai iMax
Jaguar XF
Jeep Cherokee
Kia Rondo
Lexus LX570
Mazda 6
Mazda CX-9
Mercedes-Benz C63
Mini Clubman
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo
Mitsubishi
Lancer Ralliart S/back
Peugeot 308
Proton Persona
Renault Koleos
Renault Laguna
Smart ForTwo
Subaru Forester
Volkswagen Tiguan
Volvo XC70

So the FG was eligible but wasn't selected...WTF??

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by ehast13

What competition did VE have?

a lot has happened in two years.

the VE at least ESP on everything

Obviously budget didn't extend to esp lpg fg (imo).

Would FG beat VE for COTY - YES
Would VE win 2009 COTY - NO
Tough Year
Didn't pick the A4 or mitsu evo - but geez, accord Euro, mazda 6, tiguan.

That's like being aussie running champion and lining up a agaist carl lewis and ... well ...a couple of other guys who can run really fast

This man speak the truth with no blinkers.
The FG is a good car no doubt and it did make it as a subfinalist but it does have a big let down. The LPG models, ancient system, cruddy old 4 spd auto and no ESP, a shortcut by Ford. When you're in compeition with the rest of the world, just being an Aussie car doesn't cut it and it shouldn't, that's called a hollow victory and I certainly won't buy an Aussie car just because it is Aussie, it has to fit a strict criteria, as is the situation here. The car should win on merit. Wheels have a different criteria to other published awards so winning one award doesn't gurantee it to win all.

Yes the VE won a couple of years back with a 4sp auto, so did the BA and the Territory, but a lot has changed in the last couple of years, the competition has raised the bar.

Out of the finalists my pick would be the Accord Euro.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Wretched

The LPG models, ancient system, cruddy old 4 spd auto and no ESP, a shortcut by Ford.

Thought the mixer system was used to to patent issues by the system that FoA wanted to use.


Anywho if you go to video 4 (on the right hand side) you can see the contenders. I warn you it is ACA 'quality' reporting at its best.

http://aca.ninemsn.com.au/

[XR6_190]

ESP can not be the reason that the FG did not/ will not win, ESP is a initial part of the criteria, if a vehicle model does not pass the initial criteria, it is out immediately. The FG was not ruled out in the initial criteria, so ESP can not be the reason it may fail.

As for the FG not having ESP, ESP is standard on the FG Falcon, however, if the E-Gas option is selected ESP is then unavailable, this technicality is how FG could/ Should pass this hurdle

[Maggot]

Originally Posted by ehast13

The issue is not how awesome the G6/E/ET etc but how the whole model stacks up

How does an e-gas falcoon stack up? No ESP, no five speed auto, old tech lpg....
Little things make a big difference in these awards. There cannot afford to be a weak link.

A 4 speed auto (circa 1989ea), 156kw (comparable to 1994ef) 4.0 six with a 15L/100km consumption (circa 1977 xc) with no ESP (Circa noah's ark lol) is a weak link.

A chink in the armour

I would agree with all that.. no doubt.

But would they drop the euro from contention becuase the non-euro model does not comply.. and why not dump the evo because the standard lancer is a bit boring??

The market difference between an auto gas wagon.. and the FG G6ET is so different that I think it unfair to judge them as 1 unit if the other models weren't also.

[efI_Fairmont]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Thought the mixer system was used to to patent issues by the system that FoA wanted to use.

Anywho if you go to video 4 (on the right hand side) you can see the contenders. I warn you it is ACA 'quality' reporting at its best.

http://aca.ninemsn.com.au/

Wow I just took a look at this video, if this is true, then that is very dissappointing that th Falcon didn't make the final cut. Not that I hold much value in COTY or Wheels in general for that matter, but Joe Consumer tends too..

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by Maggot

I would agree with all that.. no doubt.

But would they drop the euro from contention becuase the non-euro model does not comply.. and why not dump the evo because the standard lancer is a bit boring??

The market difference between an auto gas wagon.. and the FG G6ET is so different that I think it unfair to judge them as 1 unit if the other models weren't also.

Euro Accord and Accord are totally different. Dont know why you are bring up the BF III Wagon, its got nothing to do with it the 2009 WCOTY.
Its the LPG optioned FG thats the issue here

[prydey]

all these people bagging the egas falcon!! have they ever driven one and compared it to another gas falcon or similar with a 'modern technology' setup?

fair enough the system is low tech but due to contractual issues, ford's hands were tied. it also does the job of what is required of it. i have a bfmk2 egas ( i realise its not an fg) and yes it is lacking in power compared to a petrol version but to compare it to a petrol version is a bit unfair. i've also driven falcons with aftermarket svi setups on them and whilst the enthusiast might notice an ever so slight difference in power, the economy side of things is not much different, especially when you factor in the petrol usage as well which an egas doesn't have.

traction control and other electronic programs are not available due to the backfiring nature of gas, but who seriously needs traction control on a 6 cyl falcon.

people love to bag things because they are old technology but sometimes, if it aint broke, don't fix it. don't forget, ls1/ls2 etc still run the camshaft in the block but still turn out awesome numbers compared to fords 'high tech' quad cam boss motor.

[Swordsman88]

This is a pretty baffling list of finalists IMO. Sure the FG was never a 'shoe in' like some thought (this is Wheels COTY....allegedly biased or not it is very thorough and impossible to predict even if you were there on the day) i would have put down a fiver on it being a finalist....

It was always going to be a tough year (compared to 2006 and the aurion was a finalist...yeah that wouldn't happen now). I will reserve judgement until the mag comes out.....they justification is usually extensive.

For me, it is not the FG 'loss' per se but the finalists they picked. The accord euro is a fine car, but it has generally been viewed as inferior to the Mazda 6, in fact it has lost most reviews to the mazda (which was also in coty). It even lost in one review to a Ford mondeo (coty finalist 2007)!!!! If it wins i'll be damned.

The Tiguan is a better chance. The Evo is great, but value equation is an issue when compared to cars like an XR6T which is much bigger and while less wieldy, quicker.

The A4 is the only reall contender, but i don't know much about it so.....

Have a quick look at the cars that didn't get finalist...FG, jag XF, Mazda 6.....theres your real finalists right there IMO :

EDIT: oh and i don't buy the Egas excuse either. The VE won with a woeful 4speed and inferior base engine to its competitors (acknowledged at the time) and that was in the vast majority of base cars.

[Wretched]

People stop comparing the Accord Euro to the Accord, totally different cars.
The current Euro has been described as a cut above the previous model, better than the 6 and has had rave reviews. You can't compare it to the previous model.

If it ain't broke don't fix? That is what the problem is with the local Automotive industry. The lazy attitude of "she'll be right mate" then whine and complain that imports are selling better. If the locals are serious, how about pulling the thumb out and putting in a decent effort to compete with the imports. Where is the innovation in their vehicles, even over the previous model? An exterior update doesn't cut it anymore.

Like it or not the current gas system in the Falcon is past its time and needs updating (if the Falcon remains here in OZ long enough). The LPG set up in the Falcon could be so much better and sell better if it they spent the $$ and updated it. Without ESP the falcon isn't a five star safety car.

In terms of Wheels COTY, as much as some of you would like to think it, Wheels are not biased, they're criteria is there and if the car range doesn't meet it then it misses out, fair enough too. If it were just the G6ET in contention I bet it'd still be there, simply put the rest of the range just doesn't cut it.

Here is the criteria Wheels use, bolded is where I see the Falcon failing.

TECHNOLOGY

Does it deliver genuine advantages to consumers through the use of improved technology? Includes the use of new materials, superior production techniques and the use of innovative systems. The focus must always be the delivery of genuine advantages through the application of better technology … and at a reasonable price.

EFFICIENCY AND ENVIRONMENT

How efficiently does the car use resources. What impact on the environment does its use involve?
Takes into account fuel consumption relative to competitors. Also, to a lesser extent, whether the car represents an efficient investment of materials and energy. The environmental rating is based on carbon dioxide and emissions associated with use.

SAFETY

How well does the car protect?
Rates both active and passive safety systems of the car, whether standard or optional equipment.
A possible five points can be achieved for active safety features (ABS, EBD, BA, TC, ESP), while passive safety features (specifically, the number of airbags fitted) is also scored out of five.

VALUE

Does the price accurately reflect its qualities?
Essentially, quality – in every sense – versus price. Affordability is pre-scored (from a possible five points) based on the cost of the range.
A further possible five points can be awarded by each judge based on the actual pricing relative to competitors.

[FalconXR6]

How does Evo get a look in without the rest of the Lancer range?
That would be like saying the F6 gets a look in because it's the fastest car in the fleet, but the rest of the range gets left out.

Doesn't at all seem right to me.

I will be interested to read "why" FG didn't make the cut.

Then again, like I've said before, Whells COTY is, has and probably always will be crapola. Your not credible when you've set the standard and awarded COTY's to;
Leyland P76
Camira
Impreza
VN Commodore
VR Commodore
VT Commodore
VE Commodore
etc, etc...

[FalconXR6]

Originally Posted by Wretched

People stop comparing the Accord Euro to the Accord, totally different cars.
The current Euro has been described as a cut above the previous model, better than the 6 and has had rave reviews. You can't compare it to the previous model.

If it ain't broke don't fix? That is what the problem is with the local Automotive industry. The lazy attitude of "she'll be right mate" then whine and complain that imports are selling better. If the locals are serious, how about pulling the thumb out and putting in a decent effort to compete with the imports. Where is the innovation in their vehicles, even over the previous model? An exterior update doesn't cut it anymore.

Like it or not the current gas system in the Falcon is past its time and needs updating (if the Falcon remains here in OZ long enough). The LPG set up in the Falcon could be so much better and sell better if it they spent the $$ and updated it. Without ESP the falcon isn't a five star safety car.

In terms of Wheels COTY, as much as some of you would like to think it, Wheels are not biased, they're criteria is there and if the car range doesn't meet it then it misses out, fair enough too. If it were just the G6ET in contention I bet it'd still be there, simply put the rest of the range just doesn't cut it.

Here is the criteria Wheels use, bolded is where I see the Falcon failing.

I can't relate to your agruement.

Ford have used new tech to decrease fuel consumption of their 4.0 litre 6 to better that of the 3.6 litre V6 in Commodore (last years COTY).
They have also used new tech in everything from their traction and stability control systems right through to their 5 star body structure.

As for safety criteria.
This is the first Australian made vehicle to be awarded 5 stars in the ANCAP.

Come on...

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by FalconXR6

I can't relate to your agruement.

Ford have used new tech to decrease fuel consumption of their 4.0 litre 6 to better that of the 3.6 litre V6 in Commodore (last years COTY).

They have also used new tech in everything from their traction and stability control systems right through to their 5 star body structure.

As for safety criteria.
This is the first Australian made vehicle to be awarded 5 stars in the ANCAP.

Come on...

Actually you'll find it was two years ago the Commodore won, the Merc C class won last year. A lot changes in two years within the automotive industry.

Reducing fuel consumption is great but what is the tech used? Is it just a simple tune of the engine?

No, the five star safety only applied to the Petrol model, not the LPG models. ESP and TC are not available on LPG cars, a big seller for Ford. As I said before, if Ford only had the G6ET then it would have a better chance, the LPG models are where Ford simply lost the plot.

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by Wretched

People stop comparing the Accord Euro to the Accord, totally different cars.
The current Euro has been described as a cut above the previous model, better than the 6 and has had rave reviews. You can't compare it to the previous model.

If it ain't broke don't fix? That is what the problem is with the local Automotive industry. The lazy attitude of "she'll be right mate" then whine and complain that imports are selling better. If the locals are serious, how about pulling the thumb out and putting in a decent effort to compete with the imports. Where is the innovation in their vehicles, even over the previous model? An exterior update doesn't cut it anymore.

Like it or not the current gas system in the Falcon is past its time and needs updating (if the Falcon remains here in OZ long enough). The LPG set up in the Falcon could be so much better and sell better if it they spent the $$ and updated it. Without ESP the falcon isn't a five star safety car.

In terms of Wheels COTY, as much as some of you would like to think it, Wheels are not biased, they're criteria is there and if the car range doesn't meet it then it misses out, fair enough too. If it were just the G6ET in contention I bet it'd still be there, simply put the rest of the range just doesn't cut it.

Here is the criteria Wheels use, bolded is where I see the Falcon failing.

Frankly, while i admit the FG is far from perfect RE wheels criteria, i would point to numerous areas where your reasoning falls down. Such as:

TECHNOLOGY

Does it deliver genuine advantages to consumers through the use of improved technology? Includes the use of new materials, superior production techniques and the use of innovative systems. The focus must always be the delivery of genuine advantages through the application of better technology … and at a reasonable price.

THis is a no brainer. Composite intake manifold (lower fuel burn, real world application, save weight), aluminium suspension components (how many other mass produced cars have this??), monotube dampers etc. etc. Sensors for impact that 'sense' air pressure of the impact ahead. Other cars in the group have this for sure, but the FG is not just a BF with a new body, this has been covered numerous times on here..... As for reasonable price, suffice is to say, not a problem at all.

EFFICIENCY AND ENVIRONMENT

How efficiently does the car use resources. What impact on the environment does its use involve?
Takes into account fuel consumption relative to competitors. Also, to a lesser extent, whether the car represents an efficient investment of materials and energy. The environmental rating is based on carbon dioxide and emissions associated with use.

SAFETY

How well does the car protect?
Rates both active and passive safety systems of the car, whether standard or optional equipment.
A possible five points can be achieved for active safety features (ABS, EBD, BA, TC, ESP), while passive safety features (specifically, the number of airbags fitted) is also scored out of five.

While FG may fall down in this area to a degree (esp on lpg, no curtain bags standard) it is far from alone in this regard. Given the additonal features are very competitively pried options i would struggle to see how this was a huge issue.
VALUE

Does the price accurately reflect its qualities?
Essentially, quality – in every sense – versus price. Affordability is pre-scored (from a possible five points) based on the cost of the range.
A further possible five points can be awarded by each judge based on the actual pricing relative to competitors.

In the end the other cars were simply better against the criteria than the FG, mazda 6 etc. I'm sure Wheels will explain themselves fully in the mag. Will be interesting nonetheless given how many of the cars involved were in rivals COTY tests and didn't go very well at all....this list is against the generall trend hence the raised eyebrows at this stage....

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by prydey

people love to bag things because they are old technology but sometimes, if it aint broke, don't fix it. .

With that reasoning we would still be driving XFs. Have you driven a six speed auto Falcon? We owned both at the same time, both Turbo, and I can tell you the four-speed auto makes any Falcon feel like an XF in regards to refinement compared to a six speed auto car.

[Dave_au]

From previous reviews of the FG by Wheels, I'd say it was knocked on the head because curtin airbags are not standard.

[Velociraptor82]

It has appeared to me that over the last few years the winner of Wheels COTY was always the the latest release. Since the FG has been out for a few months now, that means the award would have to go to something newer.

Personally I think the Wheels COTY award is a laugh!!!

Not much different to getting Paul Gover from the Herald Sun doing a "fair" comparison between Ford and Holden

[XR4568]

Originally Posted by Velociraptor82

Not much different to getting Paul Gover from the Herald Sun doing a "fair" comparison between Ford and Holden

Hahaha, so so true.

Also, never before have I seen a motoring journalist make so many factual errors too. Rubbish publication...

[FalconXR6]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Actually you'll find it was two years ago the Commodore won, the Merc C class won last year. A lot changes in two years within the automotive industry.

Reducing fuel consumption is great but what is the tech used? Is it just a simple tune of the engine?

No, the five star safety only applied to the Petrol model, not the LPG models. ESP and TC are not available on LPG cars, a big seller for Ford. As I said before, if Ford only had the G6ET then it would have a better chance, the LPG models are where Ford simply lost the plot.

In one post you claim the Falcon is short on new tech.
Yet in this post you clearly demonstrate that you have no understanding of the new tech which has been employed.

Clearly your arguement was to provoke, rather than to provide factual information.

[Jondalar]

I read this whole thread and still did not see the correct list of finalists:

VW Tiguan
Audi A4
Honda Accord Euro
Mazda 6...

I watched the ACA thing and they rabbit on about economy being more important than ever. The main problem the FG has I think is that Wheels COTY is about the whole range, not just one model. G6ET may have done very well on it's own, which is the way most other Aussie awards are done. Ford is perhaps being penalised for making too many variants?

[Elks]

It's Wheels Magazine. They have no clue. They bundle all the FG range together then don't bundle the Lancer/Evo :

Their sister publication Motor was ran a story with modded cars this month and the were able to run a 13.6 or thereabouts with Herrod modded G6E T with supposedly 400kw. When standard ones are running 12.8 or 12.9. Can they not drive?? If you read the article you would think the the Walkinshaw VE was the car to buy when final scores had it as 8/10 and the Ford 9/10.

I know it sounds like sore loser but when I was asked if I thought that the FG would win COTY I said "no way" purely on emotion. There is a bias to GM in everything Wheels/Motor do.

I read bits a friends places and get angry at the inaccuracies. These guys don't deserve your $$ simply don't buy the trash.

[DJR-351]

Well my inlaws must agree with the Wheels COTY as they have just traded their G6ET (less than 3000kms on the clock) for the A4.......

Chalk and Cheese they reckon......

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by FalconXR6

In one post you claim the Falcon is short on new tech.
Yet in this post you clearly demonstrate that you have no understanding of the new tech which has been employed.

Clearly your arguement was to provoke, rather than to provide factual information.

Not at all.
If you did read my posts my stab at the low tech was moreso in regards to the LPG system employed by Ford for the Falcon range and how it limits the cars potential (4spd, no ESP, no TC, etc). I also clearly stated that if the G6ET was on it's own it would have had a better chance.
So it isn't a provacation post, more a constructive post. Of course due to the audience here it might not be interpreted that way.

As I have said numerous times, I am a Ford man through and through, however I am not blindly following them. They have a lot of room for improvement and if they're to continue selling the Falcon they need to address these.

[ADSXR8]

Originally Posted by XA351COUPE

Well my inlaws must agree with the Wheels COTY as they have just traded their G6ET (less than 3000kms on the clock) for the A4.......

Chalk and Cheese they reckon......

WOW, what a shame!

[irlewy86]

EVO has how many variants? How about the A4? I dare say the only car range picked in that list that is comparable to the WHOLE falcon range is the Mazda 6. If they are choosing a car based on its range than why call it "Car of the year"

[GTP-814]

All this does is to reinforce my decision not to but wheels, just a trashy bias mag