FPV Focus....

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by CADSKY

so what engine does it run??? both? :

I think you're confused.

The article is reporting on the NEXT GENERATION FOCUS which is yet to be released here, I have said this in my first response to your post. It is known as Focus 3, again not yet available for sale, but they have put a picture of the Focus 2 RS, not relevant.

The Focus 3 they are referring to in the article will not have the currently available Volvo I5 due to the sale of Volvo. They will utilise a range of EcoBoost engines. So it is not possible for them to just put the current RS engine into a XR(?).

The CURRENT Focus 2 ST and RS models use the Volvo engines.
The current ST can have the RS engine but as I said it will need major chassis tuning to handle all the power, in the end it would be easier and probably cheaper to just have a RS.

You're giving me a headache, go and research Focus 2 ST and RS and see the mechnical differences.
Then go and look up Focus 3.

[HSE2]

One of the issues FPV have is defining what makes a FPV.

"One Ford" doesn't actually fit FPVs idea of uniqueness. One ford applies to cars wearing a blue oval.

Instead of hot hatch it’s become a hot question. Originally FPV needed the focus to be built in Australia to efficiently 'enhance' the product requirement.

Successive FPV failure have been criticised for a lack of specific FPV DNA or not fulfilling consumers expectations about what the FPV product should be above and beyond badge engineering.

While we snicker at stripe engineering, internally it’s a more serious issue, or should I say struggle.

[chrisfpv]

Looks a little like a HSV if you ask me...

[a_misfit]

...and why not post a picture of the front end of GT for absolute comparison. (minus the racoon eyes)

[FPV GTHO]

Thinking about it for a second, it wouldnt surprise me in the least to see the next Focus top out at an ST/SVT model and the RS left to the Fiesta. The increasing size and weight of the cars is going to make it harder to keep to the spirit of the previous RS cars without resorting to 350hp+ and AWD.

[Jondalar]

Isn't the RS part of the next generation Focus? ie Focus 3?

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Jondalar

Isn't the RS part of the next generation Focus? ie Focus 3?

There will be one for Focus 3.
There is one that is for the current Focus 2 model which is in the article from the OP.
There was one for Focus 1 too.

[XRSEX]

******** that looks mint!

[DBourne]

Originally Posted by flappist

How well does the XR5 sell? I have not seen many but they may possibly be more of a "city" car.

They sell brilliantly

[sxckevo]

i see STACKS of xr5 turbos where i am most are focuses not mondeo

[Jondalar]

Wretched my point was the current (UK) ST looks like the Focus3 to me, not 2 and I remember reading something about it being the first of the new version? I could well be wrong of course..

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by CADSKY

have you ever driven one?

I have, not that special and it is tame.

[BFYOOT]

Is the RS FWD or AWD? I love the look of them, about the only car i'd trade the V8 for. Might have to move to mother england!! or buy lotto tickets to import one.............

[geckoGT]

FWD, with a special front suspension that Ford calls revoknuckle, daggy name but apparently it allows a seemingly impossible amount of power through FWD without killer torque steer.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

FWD, with a special front suspension that Ford calls revoknuckle, daggy name but apparently it allows a seemingly impossible amount of power through FWD without killer torque steer.

I guess killer torque steer is subjective - there's still oodles of torque steer when you plant it.

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by Jondalar

Wretched my point was the current (UK) ST looks like the Focus3 to me, not 2 and I remember reading something about it being the first of the new version? I could well be wrong of course..

For awhile when the Mk2 facelift came out, we got Euro built ST's with the facelift whilst South Africa still had the original Mk2 styling.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by Rodp

I guess killer torque steer is subjective - there's still oodles of torque steer when you plant it.

But it doesn't throw you off the road like the HSV VXR Astra does, and the astra has less power.

Of course I can not comment on the RS, there aren't any here so I have not driven one and I have only read reviews which all commented favourably in this area. I would not say the XR5 has heaps, it was really very good and so was the Golf GTI. The HSV VXR was terrible, actually worse than that.

Simple fact is you have to drive powerful front wheel drives differently, no flooring the throttle mid corner, you squeeze the power on. The advantage is they don't try and turn you around mid corner like a powerful RWD. All about learning to drive it according to it's characteristics, a bit like learning to drive a manual FPV without driveline clunks.

I have found with the Mini you factor in the torque steer and steer left a little when you nail it.

[DBourne]

XR5 and RS are beautiful handlers as well.

I'm continuously amazed at how well my 5 handles in the twisties, especially for a FWD.

RS also has an LSD which helps with cornering, and there is an LSD available from the UK for the XR5 which turns it into a corner, straightline moster

[DJM83]

Waste of time i think, nothing against forcus owners but i think FPV should focus on getting the Falcon varients right IMO.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by DJM83

Waste of time i think, nothing against forcus owners but i think FPV should focus on getting the Falcon varients right IMO.

That's what I have been trying to say.
The Focus performance variants have been done by RS in Europe, I don't think FPV would do any better, they still need to work on getting the Falcon package right.
I wouldn't buy a FPV Focus. I'd rather Ford just keep importing the.

[glavas]

yeah i agree budy i dont know why people would even want a hot hatch from australia. if you want a hot hatch get a wrx sti or a golf. dont tarnish the name of hsv/fpv


you think ford you think of big v8's. but then again fpv loves there turbos they have a turbo 6 in there line up that sells good so just a matter of time for a small trolly sized fpv. sad times were in boys sad times. the days of large rwd v8's are dying!!!!

could you even imagine going on a family road trip in some little car the size of a small single bed. my mate has a mazda 2 and drives his famly from brisbane to melbourne every year,, how embarrsing!!!!

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by glavas

yeah i agree budy i dont know why people would even want a hot hatch from australia. if you want a hot hatch get a wrx sti or a golf. dont tarnish the name of hsv/fpv


you think ford you think of big v8's. but then again fpv loves there turbos they have a turbo 6 in there line up that sells good so just a matter of time for a small trolly sized fpv. sad times were in boys sad times. the days of large rwd v8's are dying!!!!

could you even imagine going on a family road trip in some little car the size of a small single bed. my mate has a mazda 2 and drives his famly from brisbane to melbourne every year,, how embarrsing!!!!

This is a fairly typical, V8 biased point of view that you get a lot around here and I say that without malice, it is your view but there is a heavy bias.

How many V8's do FPV need in their line up, for sedans they already have GS, GT, GT-P, GT-E and potentially GT-H. These are all cars that are competing in the V8 large performance car market, competing for the same buyers.

Saying that FPV and Ford should stick to that market and leave the performance small car market to the likes of mitsubishi, subaru, volkswagen etc is, from a business point of view, laughable. Why on earth would you concentrate on a shrinking market and leave the growth market to others?

Not every australian needs a big car that can fit mum. dad, the dog, 2.3 kids for long trips whilst towing a boat or caravan. Many do not even drive long trips. Many families have two cars and it is not unusual for one to be a big car and one to be a smaller car. It is extremely rare to find a family that has two large performance cars but it is more common to find one that has a hot hatch and a large V8 (us for a start).

I do agree that FPV should not put too much R&D into a hot hatch, they don't know what they are doing. Why do they have to re invent the wheel? Ford in the UK have built a class leader in the RS, just re badge the damn thing. The simple fact is that the buyers of hot hatches in Australia are well read, we know what europe have and we do not believe that FOA or FPV will immediately do better. For FPV to think they can do better is egotistical and to me shows they underestimate the hot hatch market, thinking we will take anything that they serve up.

Tori and I used to be a 2 FPV household with a GT and a SP, we now have the Mini MCS JCW and the SP. When the Mini comes up for replacement I currently have 2 options that I am considering, either a Mini Clubman JCW (approx $60k) or a VW Golf R20 (not released yet, approx $60k). If FPV were to bring in the Focus RS (badged as FPV) and it is as good a car as it is at the moment, that would be my first choice and the rumoured $50k price tag is cheaper than the others I am looking at. At the moment Ford and FPV do not have a chance of getting my business for my next hot hatch, they do not have anything that fits what I want.

Now, I may be a bit of a minority group in this forum where V8's rule supreme, everything must be RWD and hatches are shopping trolley's. But I am not the minority in the car market and FPV need to recognise that. Actually the lovers of big V8 powered, RWD performance cars will one day end up the minority group of performance car buyers. So why focus on a shrinking market and ignore the growth market, time to change FOCUS a bit and bring in the RS. When that happens and I hope it does, we will finally have two FPV's again.

[Transfiguring R]

Well said, geckoGT.

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

I do agree that FPV should not put too much R&D into a hot hatch, they don't know what they are doing. Why do they have to re invent the wheel? Ford in the UK have built a class leader in the RS, just re badge the damn thing.

I could think of a dozen reasons why a premium brand should not indulge in badge engineering, half of those covered in the original FPV mantra.

Ford can do what you have just stated. They can import any product they like a stick a badge on it. FPV shouldn't.
.

Rod wanted local content in such a product and that’s the correct way to go with the FPV brand under the direction set. You don't remove the Ford badge unless you are prepared to back it up. Rod set that direction, now it remains to be seen if he can follow through.

Probably most don't realise that FPV as Tickford did pride themselves on engineering content. It’s not as accessible as it once was but it’s still there.

I would argue Prodrive do exactly know what they are doing with a hot hatch.

Prodrive in the engineering body of FPV.

[DJM83]

Top post Lynton, i agree i think bringing in the RS from the UK is a great idea (if price is suitable) as you have said FPV would have a hard time bettering it w/o a fair whack of R+D $$$, which could be spent refineing the Falcon range so when/if they get the RS here there is next to nothing to get it into the FPV range alongside the V8's and I6T's

[zetec]

Originally Posted by CADSKY

have you ever driven one?

I have and they leave an XR5 Turbo for dead. They're absolutely INCREDIBLE to drive and look much better in the metal and in Blue or white. The green's a little bright.

Trust me, when you've driven one, all sentiment goes out the window.

RS Rocks.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by HSE2

I could think of a dozen reasons why a premium brand should not indulge in badge engineering, half of those covered in the original FPV mantra.

Ford can do what you have just stated. They can import any product they like a stick a badge on it. FPV shouldn't.
.

Rod wanted local content in such a product and that’s the correct way to go with the FPV brand under the direction set. You don't remove the Ford badge unless you are prepared to back it up. Rod set that direction, now it remains to be seen if he can follow through.

Probably most don't realise that FPV as Tickford did pride themselves on engineering content. It’s not as accessible as it once was but it’s still there.

I would argue Prodrive do exactly know what they are doing with a hot hatch.

Prodrive in the engineering body of FPV.

I do see your points and they are very valid.

I suppose the points on badge engineering are all a matter of perspective. As FPV is part owned by Prodrive and Prodrive had a large input into the R&D of the Focus RS, would FPV re doing a hot hatch not be Prodrive reinventing their own work? Local engineering is fine but not when it is change for the sake of change on a already class leading product.

FPV have the business mantra that they will only R&D australian work, which at the time they began was a good thing. The problem is that does not now fit in Fords own "One Ford" business model that they are working towards.

The real question is, are they going to ignore a large growth market on the basis of business principles that were set down in a different economic climate? Personally I do not think they will, the sales of cars like the Lancer Evolution X MR, Subaru STI, Golf R32 and Mini JCW are evidence that there is a market in Australia for a high end performance smaller car. This is something I believe Ford and FPV would be crazy to turn their back on, that market is growing.

Personally, I see no problem, even with the FPV mantra in mind. FPV could quite rightfully take the Focus RS, make some changes to the badging, interior etc and sell it with their heads held high based on the direct link with Prodrive. Just as long as they leave the mechanicals alone, I would seriously look at it. If they do not, our next performance small car at this stage is likely to have a Mini or VW badge, end of story. I know we are not alone, have a look around, it is not rare to see a FPV or HSV parked in a driveway alongside a WRX, Evo or GTI.

Personally, I don't care if Ford or FPV bring in an RS, whatever badge I will seriously consider it. I would prefer it wears FPV badges (it would match my other FPV nicely) but I would still buy it with Ford badges. I just believe with the performance characteristics of the RS, it belongs in the FPV stable and not the Ford stable. Perhaps it even belongs in the performance stable more than some of the present occupants, it out performs them.

[glavas]

i can understand turbo 4 pots are the new v8 to the new generation of kids but fwd? why? at least make them awd. ive driven some fwd and there just useless they tourqe steer like crazy.

if people want fast hatchbacks why not make a v8 with a M6 gear box and a awd drive system? in a car that weighs about 1400-1500kg that would be quite lethal!!

i just dont belive in performance and fwd and i know plenty people who dont either.

and gecko gt i own a maloo and sti among other things so ya people do have both. im starting to trust these small turbo cars now but they will never beat the v8. but the one thing i dont like about the mini is that big as tacho is that really necessary?

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by glavas

but the one thing i dont like about the mini is that big as tacho is that really necessary?

And that proves how long it has been since you have had a look, they no longer have a big tacho and it was only the Australian Mini that it was a tacho, other nations had a speedo there, changed since 2007. It is now a speedo with a smaller tacho/digital speedo on the steering column. Why, because the original Mini had a large central speedo and that is retro and cool.

Why FWD, because the base models of these cars are FWD, AWD will make them prohibitively expensive in many cases. Also AWD adds considerable weight in a car that the performance is a result of light weight.

[BAxtER]

i would love to see an RS focus here re-badged FPV. Only issue is pricing...you couldnt have it anymore then 60K...? right?

I know the subary wrx sti according to their site and with my postcode typed in is From: $67,390 *

Dont know about the evo lancer. But if it needs to gain a little more sales to begin with 60k driveaway needs to be achieved...Or could ford go higher then 60grand and still achieve sucess?