Would you buy a diesel Falcon?

[Falcon Coupe]

The idea is attractive to me, but with LPG and ecoboost I don't think it's necessary.

[sgt_doofey]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

with LPG and ecoboost I don't think it's necessary.

I agree. Having my 4.0L EL on LPG means it is cheaper to run than the 2.0L HDi (Diesel) Peugeot we have. Only just and that is comparing one engine that is half the capacity of the other.
Given the choice of either LiLPG and diesel in a Falcon, I'd probably go the LiLPG as it would be cheaper to run in the long run. The only advantage I'd see is longevity in the diesel and a possible boost in towing capacity due to the torque numbers.

Don't get me wrong, the Pug is a great car to drive and the way the torque pushes you back in your seat when the turbo comes on song at 1750rpm is sweet. Diesel also means a different driving experience to petrol. The torque comes on strong and early, whereas with some petrol engines, it higher up in the rev range. Passing cars from 90km/h, planting your foot whilst still in 6th gear can see the speed increase at a rapid rate, yet it doesn't feel like it as the power isn't there, just that torque.

[cycle myth]

Many have cited the example of how good a diesel can be with the XF jag.

With the same or similar engine, same or similar gearbox, similar weight .... why wouldn't you?

It would have to cost less than the XF's $100k and perform in line.

Sad.

[Kryton]

Considering a lot of taxi's are turning away from LPG and towards diesel, really makes you wonder the entire greatness of LPG.
But what would taxi owners know.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by davway

Considering a lot of taxi's are turning away from LPG and towards diesel, really makes you wonder the entire greatness of LPG.
But what would taxi owners know.

Haven't seen a diesel taxi yet. Seen plenty of Hybrids. I guess we should have a Hybrid Falcon before a diesel one.

[Kryton]

All bar maybe 2 taxi's are diesels in Warrnambool.

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Haven't seen a diesel taxi yet. Seen plenty of Hybrids. I guess we should have a Hybrid Falcon before a diesel one.

Hybrid Falcon !!....lets see if we can get Russ to add that term to the swear filter !

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by davway

All bar maybe 2 taxi's are diesels in Warrnambool.

Guess its cost effective out there, not popular in Melbourne.

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

Hybrid Falcon !!....lets see if we can get Russ to add that term to the swear filter !

haha! Yeah I doubt its gonna happen with how rubbish the sales on the Camry are going.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

Hybrid Falcon !!....lets see if we can get Russ to add that term to the swear filter !

haha! Yeah I doubt its gonna happen with how rubbish the sales on the Camry are going.

[vztrt]

double post

[billy302]

only a truckie knows big torque diesels
The truck I drive has 625 HP (466kw) and 1250 lb/ft or torque at idle.
Without the tailer it's quite a ride.

[Road_Warrior]

I wouldn't, no. But fit the diesel to the ute (especially an RTV) and I can see it being a nice little niche seller.

[Bucknaked]

I wouldn't. I'm not in a position to buy a car at the moment and won't be for a few years. I'm not a fan of diesels. I get 9.4 around town out of my XR5 and around 7.5 on the highway, so the extra cost for deisel wouldn't amount to any benefits over the cost of fuel and my economy in my current car. If I want better fuel savings, I'll look first at the 4cyl Mondeo Wagon before a 6 cylinder deisel falcon. And things like it being RWD doesn't bother me. Theres a list of other priorities without worrying about what wheels drive the car.

[whynot]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Haven't seen a diesel taxi yet. Seen plenty of Hybrids. I guess we should have a Hybrid Falcon before a diesel one.

Apparently, a local taxi firm in Brisbane will have 15 diesel Passat running around by year's end. Wants to have the entire 70 vehicle fleet on diesel in a few years time. Projected fuel savings are $20K over the six year life when compared to LPG.

At least, if nothing else, it will stop the complaints about the Falcon being nothing more than a taxi car.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by whynot

At least, if nothing else, it will stop the complaints about the Falcon being nothing more than a taxi car.

I wonder if the Terri will be considered then, if they are moving over.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by whynot

Projected fuel savings are $20K over the six year life when compared to LPG.

i would imagine that would be based on mixer type lpg systems. against injected lpg, esp liquid, there wouldn't be any savings, or not 20k anyway.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Haven't seen a diesel taxi yet. Seen plenty of Hybrids. I guess we should have a Hybrid Falcon before a diesel one.

In places like Singapore and Malaysia every taxi on the road is diesel. In fact, I think London taxis are diesel.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

In places like Singapore and Malaysia every taxi on the road is diesel. In fact, I think London taxis are diesel.

I was talking bout in OZ. A lot of the world has diesel taxis (but diesel is cheaper as well). Funny enough Singapore is mainly diesels, but they also have a few Hybrids and LNG taxis running around now.

[peeds13]

The only way I would consider a diesel is if it was in a base model falcon ute for work... But I have a Bf dedicated gas xl ute now and its great, so I doubt I'd ever get a diesel.

[Blast2]

A 3 litre plus twin turbo diesel in a falcon could work quite well. The xr5 are a volvo engine.

[jpd80]

I'm trying to understand the other side of the argument.

Compared to other companies, Ford has healthy LPG sales numbers so I guess
you could consider that as their alternative to Diesel which is already in place .

Now that Ford US is supporting roll out of the I-4 Ecoboost, another engine
now appears more economically viable than developing a V6 diesel Falcon.

I can see why a company with limited funds has only so much cash to spend
would play to its strengths and accept a good cost effective corporate engine.

So while a V6 diesel may be a possible future engine option, maybe the engine
Ford wants (TT 3.0) is not yet available for the right price and perhaps LPG
and Ecoboost offer Ford's customers all the economy they really need.

I'd like a diesel but not at any price and certainly not at the cost of excluding
an engine (like LPG or even Ecoboost) which potentially draws upwards of 6,000 sales a year.

I think Ford will watch sales of diesel Territory, Ecoboost and LPG Falcon and draw their own conclusions.

[BionicGT]

If it was a turbo diesel, a 6 cyl and as good as Audi's 6 cyl diesels, I'd buy one. Just been testing an Audi 2.7l turbo diesel and they are smooth, pull hard from 1200rpm and OK for freeway overtaking.

[PoweredByCNG]

People forget that the Falcon I6 is a low-revving, 'lazy' engine with very similar characteristics (high torque at low rpm) to a diesel engine. Power delivery may be slightly different, but at the end of the day, the net result is similar if not BETTER in favour of the diesel.

Diesel engines are certainly built to last. They need to be in order to cope with the combustion characteristics of the fuel. The very high compression ratios (at least 16:1) combined with turbocharging and intercooling increases torque and thermal efficiency to levels well beyond what you'd expect from a petrol engine with a similar displacement. Additionally, there's no ignition system in a diesel, so there are no expensive coils, leads or spark plugs to replace and your engine will run smoother for longer. Have a look at heavy duty vehicles (heavy trucks, buses) around you. Do any of them run on petrol? I think not.

CNG/LNG (methane) engines come a close second. The exteremly high octane number (at least 120RON equivalent) of methane allows the use of very high compression ratios (beyond 12:1) and/or turbocharging to increase torque to beyond petrol levels. The only downsides to these fuels are higher consumption compared to petrol and the requirement for additional storage space to accommodate gas cylinders. LPG (propane/butane) has similar characteristics but generally can't quite match methane.

[superroo]

Originally Posted by prydey

i know how well the euro diesels go, but you'd be kidding yourself if you thought the falcon would end up with one of those.

I'm guessing you haven't seen a pilot territory like i have then.

Cheers

[FreddyDUZ747]

Save it for the Territory as another model in the lineup.

Dont intrude on the Mondeo.

[sgt_doofey]

Originally Posted by prydey

i would imagine that would be based on mixer type lpg systems. against injected lpg, esp liquid, there wouldn't be any savings, or not 20k anyway.

Even with a mixer system in my EL, I see a slight fuel savings in dollar terms in that over the diesel Peugeot, so I couldn't imagine a large saving on the fleet swapping to diesel. And that's comparing a 13 year old car with a 4 year old car.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by prydey

like i mentioned earlier, all those companies have a global product. it means development costs and production costs are spread over a much larger base.

i don't think the aussie car makers are wrong - i think they know better than most think what will sell and what won't. Ford as a company have a lot more infomation at hand than a few forum members so i think they are much better qualified to make the decisions they do.

the commodore sells at 4000units/month (give or take) and there is no diesel option. have they got it wrong also?

i guess these are my opinions, so, no - i wouldn't buy a diesel falcon. diesel is still twice the price of lpg and liquid injected lpg systems are cheaper to run and offer plenty of power.

Look at how they dramatically underestimated demand for Diesel Mondeos in Australia. Trust me, Ford gets it wrong a lot!

[Brazen]

I personally think EcoBoost will be a sales disaster in this country, the likes of which we havnt seen since the 3.2litre EA.

They are spending all that money to fit the diesel in the Territory, just adding it Falcon ute would probably outsell the entire EcoBoost sedan range.

If I was Ford I would be aiming for parts harmonisation as much as possible between Territory and Falcon, having seperate engines is nonsense.

Ford AU are going to have to educate the buying public on the benefits of EcoBoost (which are many), but I dont think they have the skill level to achieve this. Instead they should tag-along on the Euros which have already done all the hard work on selling diesel as a mainstream engine.

Diesel Falcon will get sales especially among private buyers, LPG will get the fleets - its a perfect tow-pronged attack. It also increase the economies of scale of fitting the diesel to the Terriotry.

[mcnews]

[QUOTE=PoweredByCNG]Diesel engines are certainly built to last. They need to be in order to cope with the combustion characteristics of the fuel. The very high compression ratios (at least 16:1) combined with turbocharging and intercooling increases torque and thermal efficiency to levels well beyond what you'd expect from a petrol engine with a similar displacement. Additionally, there's no ignition system in a diesel, so there are no expensive coils, leads or

Yeah just $2000 injector pumps to replace every 100,000km or so along with more expensive filters, oils etc. There are clearly advantages but both sides of the argument should be given.

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by Brazen

I personally think EcoBoost will be a sales disaster in this country, the likes of which we havnt seen since the 3.2litre EA.

Don't bet on that! The technology is changing, the market is changing. If Ford doesn't offer the EcoBoost, watch Hyundai take the sales lead with the i45/Sonata Turbo (2.0T DI), which replaces the V6. Ford should make sure the Falcon has 200kw in its 2.0T DI.