I want the truth.....about cams

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by Sox

The duration is fairly big (rough idle), but the lift isn't all that big.
Porting, de-dagging, open up the throats a little, etc. Nothing radical.
The JMM cams work well without any tuning, however like all of them will improve with.

Having said that, my XH couldn't be improved on as far as mixtures go with the DEV5 package.
Had a standard XR ECU.
Was on a few dynos and made 175rwkw and the operators said the tune is very very good.

Cheers for that.
I know CMS do a stage 2 head that consists of that kind of work. i.e. porting, open throats etc. Might look at getting that. Later on.

Your XH was exceptional in getting that power figure Rick. Kudos to you mate. How was the torque with the Dev cam you fitted?

Another thing with AU's especially AU2 & 3 is that it is recommended that a custom tuning program be used with any aftermarket cam fitted. From what I know of the computer hates it and ends up changing its tune back to standard over time. Not sure if that makes sense.

[broken_suave]

Also sorry to intrude on your thread Shav :P

[st33l3y]

Originally Posted by broken_suave

I actually fairly happy with the mid and top end, I just want a tad more in the low to mid range. At the moment, at about 2000-2200rpm it jumps forward. I usually have quite a sedate driving style, so I dont have much need for more top end.

XR HP cam won't give you that mate, just more top end. I'd be spending my money on some decent tri-y design extractors. That'll enhance the bottom end a bit more.

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by broken_suave

Also sorry to intrude on your thread Shav :P

Thats fine mate, as long as its about cams. lol ;)

[The Monty]

Ok, quick question, about cams and heads, I have a head, that will have been skimmed twice (once at 60 thou I think), and cleaned up. How much lift am I able to run safely? It has JMM valve springs in it to. And has been re-sleeved.

[Stav]

Originally Posted by broken_suave

I had been interested in getting an XR6 HP cam a while ago, but was told it wouldnt make any difference. Is there anyone out there who can clear this up? I'm really not looking for a big aftermarket cam, just a slight improvement on the current.

I actually fairly happy with the mid and top end, I just want a tad more in the low to mid range. At the moment, at about 2000-2200rpm it jumps forward. I usually have quite a sedate driving style, so I dont have much need for more top end. However I gave it a boot two nights ago, and it just reminded me how much there is up top. It really pulls hard above 4000rpm. Slight bumps and the rear wheels are slipping ever so slightly due to the acceleration, even at +100km/h.

What I want is just a tad more 'sportiness' in the low-mid range. Even if the power doesnt increase overall, if the engine characteristics become more 'eager' I'll be happy.

Xr6 hp cam has alot more lift on the intake than the stock cam but less on the exhaust. I have seen them on the dyno typically putting out better power than a stock cam. Typicaly 5 to 7 rwkws more. I thought the head was different but was told by the head shop which recut my seats that the hp and stock au head flow the same.

[broken_suave]

Out of interest, would you recommend fitting harder valve springs with the HP cam? or would the standard Intech springs do the job? Any idea what springs would be best, all things considered? Price?

[blueoval]

Rick - Can you tell me which JMM Dev cam was better in driveability? The dev 4 or 5? Also which sounded lumpier?

[Sox]

Originally Posted by blueoval

Cheers for that.
I know CMS do a stage 2 head that consists of that kind of work. i.e. porting, open throats etc. Might look at getting that. Later on.

Sounds like a plan.

Your XH was exceptional in getting that power figure Rick. Kudos to you mate. How was the torque with the Dev cam you fitted?

Very good indeed.
From idle to 2000 it felt the same as a stocker.
Between 2000 and 3000 it was a little better.
Above 3000 things started to get serious.
Above 4000 it went exceptional all the way to 5800.

Another thing with AU's especially AU2 & 3 is that it is recommended that a custom tuning program be used with any aftermarket cam fitted. From what I know of the computer hates it and ends up changing its tune back to standard over time. Not sure if that makes sense.

The AU2 I'm selling has a DEV5 cam only in it now.
No head work at all, not even the vernier gear so it ain't clocked up. Standard valve springs.
The only other mod it has is the JMM headers and 2.5" exhaust.

It goes very good, but is missing the top end rush that the XH had.
My bumometer reckons it's good for around 150-155rwkw.
I ran a easy 14.6 on the Gtek.

It idles nice (slight lope), and has great economy.

ECU is stock standard XR.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by blueoval

Rick - Can you tell me which JMM Dev cam was better in driveability? The dev 4 or 5? Also which sounded lumpier?

I never had the DEV4.
I had the DEV3HL and DEV5.
Personally I preferred the DEV5 in every respect. If it had less low down torque than the 3HL, then it certainly didn't feel like it. And more than made up for it in top end anyway.

[blueoval]

Rick you certainly got my attention with this JMM cam. Great description you've given.

Im surprised at how well the Dev 5 has responded with such little work to everything else. I personally think the use of a capa custom edit will be worthwhile. I like the fact that you still have the stock springs and head.

I have an auto in my car, would the use of a stall converter be beneficial with the dev 5? Im assuming it would. I know it would be harder to tell with your car since yours is a 5 speed, but do you think it would be in my best interest if I want better take off with the cam?

[blueoval]

Ive been doing a little reading on fordmods about the Dev 5 cam and some of the issues you could potentially come across.

http://www.fordmods.com/forums/jim-m...le-t68529.html

Did you have any issues when fitting your cam Rik?

I also found an interesting article with regards to fitting a cam for those not in the know.

http://autospeed.com/cms/A_108226/article.html

[ebxr82nv]

Some of theproblems mark had with that car are because Jmm take to much meat off the head to get the compresion right up and the chain tentioner can't handle the extra slack in the chain. Also mock cams seem to be very lashy. And yes I had a full dev 5 kit installed by mocks in an el gli 5sp. The only thing that got changed was I put an xr ecu in. It reliably made 180-190Rwkw over the 12 months before my ex ****ed off with it. One of the main problems with Jmm is that unless yourewaving the cash under their nose they don't want to talk to you and after they've got it they don't want to talk to you either.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by blueoval

Ive been doing a little reading on fordmods about the Dev 5 cam and some of the issues you could potentially come across.

http://www.fordmods.com/forums/jim-m...le-t68529.html

Did you have any issues when fitting your cam Rik?

I also found an interesting article with regards to fitting a cam for those not in the know.

http://autospeed.com/cms/A_108226/article.html

I had an issue when I fitted my DEV3HL, but it was my mistake as I screwed the tensioner. Once I solved that problem all was good.

Same with the DEV5, and my block was also skimmed.

The problems I read about on Fordmods certainly don't indicate that it could be the cam causing the problem, nor the valve springs.
Personally I don't even see head skimming and block skimming to allow the chain to be too sloppy. We're talking less than 1/8" here.

I suspect it's due to sloppy installation, a very worn engine (guides, etc) or something I haven't thought of (I'm tired, it's been a long day).....

My XH did more than 50,000 hard k's with only one hiccup and that was a broken valve spring.

The JMM boys aren't the most approachable people some of the time, and there is certainly a lot of negative stories floating around. However contrary to all that, I had nothing but good service from both Jim and Brendan, and a product that simply did what it's supposed to do and lived up to the claims.

I think you can do a lot worse very easily, but it would take a fair bit more effort to do even a little better.

[Fordfan4u]

Surecam for the win.
I personally know of a few cars with Surecam's in them, These guys will never touch another cam, one guy even ditched his Dev5a(?) for a Surecam.
His car made 186rwkw 410nm with the Surecam BEFORE the tune. With the tune and the Dev5 he couldn't get over 170rwkw.
If I was to work up a 6, Surecam would be my only option.
It really is quite impressive, but he wants a slightly smaller cam for the street.
The current one feels slightly better than stock til 3000rpm, 3500rpm it starts to come on song, 4000rpm you start getting pushed back into your seat, from 4500rpm all the way to 7600rpm its almost frightening knowing that its only a n/a 6.
But, it idles between 650rpm and 1100rpm very very angry/lumpy and will stall on occasion. (reason for smaller cam)

Each to there own though, people have there opinions on whats better. I'm also anti JMM.

[ebxr82nv]

Originally Posted by Fordfan4u

Surecam for the win.
I personally know of a few cars with Surecam's in them, These guys will never touch another cam, one guy even ditched his Dev5a(?) for a Surecam.
His car made 186rwkw 410nm with the Surecam BEFORE the tune. With the tune and the Dev5 he couldn't get over 170rwkw.
If I was to work up a 6, Surecam would be my only option.
It really is quite impressive, but he wants a slightly smaller cam for the street.
The current one feels slightly better than stock til 3000rpm, 3500rpm it starts to come on song, 4000rpm you start getting pushed back into your seat, from 4500rpm all the way to 7600rpm its almost frightening knowing that its only a n/a 6.
But, it idles between 650rpm and 1100rpm very very angry/lumpy and will stall on occasion. (reason for smaller cam)

Each to there own though, people have there opinions on whats better. I'm also anti JMM.

7600 rpm not a stock motor then. Blueoval is looking for a cam that will work well in a daily driven car that's probly not gona be it.

[Fordfan4u]

I can assure you that the bottom end is completely stock, apart from a high vol oil pump and a stud girdle. I know this because I helped do it.
The head however has had a bit of work.

[burnz]

nobody tried watson's, sig erson???

[FS5]

i've messed with a couple of cams a jmm streetfighter cam and a gnd billet from crow.
they were good for around 150 to 160 rwks .
i reckon theres probably more to do with what heads on your motor and buying a cam to suit.i've personaly seen 3 different design's with au heads and anything from au2 on are good .
the best is i've seen is the xr6 tickford head.
the stock xr6 head and cam are hard to beat.correct me if i'm wrong but trypower still owns the top of the list,when it comes to qter times.


just for interest ,from memory my jmm cam measured 480 thou lift both in/ex couldn't measure duration or lobes
from memory the gnd cam measured 230 @ 50 with about 475 valve lift both in/ex can't remember lobe centre's ,think it was 110*
hamo's cam was 220 @ 50 with a lot less lift ,i think 450/460 and it ran a 14.3 .

bigger isn't always better ,if you want to run a big cam in an au you need 3.9/4.1 diff gears a decent 3000 rpm + stally and a tune to set your rpm limmiter to 6100 rpm.

have read through this ,its my old build thread .
http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=94360

[Fordfan4u]

There is a couple of cars hovering around the very low 14's, tripower 14.2, stav 14.2, stiddy 14.1 or a 14.0 i cant remember anymore and hamo 14.3 are the main ones that come to memory.
There was a bloke on fordmods with an AU XR6, It's Performance built motor with a haltec interceptor tune.. ran a 13.9 but his motor ended up blowing.
Theres a few quick 6's around that keep to themselves and aren't on the forums.

[FS5]

over the years a lot of us have heard a lot of things ,show me the slips ....
i know what stav ,trypower and hamo's cars run.
did stiddy get his big cam and give it a run ????
i've heard about the bloke from fordmods.......

[The Monty]

Stiddy did run as good number, had problems though withthe limiter, or missed a gear or traction or something. PM sent Jake.

[Fordfan4u]

Originally Posted by FS5

over the years a lot of us have heard a lot of things ,show me the slips ....
i know what stav ,trypower and hamo's cars run.
did stiddy get his big cam and give it a run ????
i've heard about the bloke from fordmods.......

Post 45, the car I was explaining is Stiddy's car. So yes he has done the cam amoungst other things. Worked head, ported inlet manifold, new extractors, and played around with his fuel system.
He's been deleted off these forums, but I know him very well, been mates for over 10 years, even went to high school together.
Alot of work has gone into that 6 of his.
He ran a 14.10 or a 14.01 with the standard 5800rpm limiter after all his work, but the standard limiter was holding the car back big time considering he really only had 1500rpm of strong power band.
Took the risk/retuned with a 7600rpm limiter and now the car is going harder than I have ever seen although it hasn't been back to the track yet.
Atomic did the stud girdle and we did the oil pump for insurance while the sump was off.
Its going to be faily impressive when he's out at WSID again if he can put the power down. 1st and 2nd gear now is a real handful and he'll sit and spin 3rd if you ask nicely lol.

For a laugh, he's also thinking about a NOS kit..... and I'm really not kidding.

FordFan.

[blueoval]

Interesting read fellas, very interesting, although I must say those power figures exceed the output Im trying to achieve.

What I am trying to do it look for the best cam, head and tune package for the best dollar.

Also while I dont want to see JMM bagged out, some of the experiences given have made me think twice, despite dome of the successes. Customer service is important to me.

Anyway, I think the subject still needs further investigation so please keep your posts coming. Im am very pleased to see and hear of great results.

[rob_liss_lms10]

I dont want to split hairs, but most of the times that have been quoted cant be solely attributed to the cams, lets not forget that most of the top 10 cars all have lower diff ratios,stallies etc and I believe some were running race rubber. With this in mind it is not a good indicator on what cam to get based on these 1/4 mile times.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by rob_liss_lms10

I dont want to split hairs, but most of the times that have been quoted cant be solely attributed to the cams, lets not forget that most of the top 10 cars all have lower diff ratios,stallies etc and I believe some were running race rubber. With this in mind it is not a good indicator on what cam to get based on these 1/4 mile times.

This is a very good point.
ET's have much to do with traction, suspension, driver, temperature, gearing, and a few other things.

For the record, my XH ran 14.4 @ 97mph with tractionless street radials and a 3.45 LSD. My suspension was also set up for normal track work with big sway bars, stiff springs and stiff shocks.
My 60ft times were in the 2.2's.

With slicks and the right gearing I think it would easily have run in the high 13's.

[blueoval]

The thing is for me, Im not worried about it pulling times. More on making sure the power is where it should be and cam is working to its potential.

[Mechan1k]

If that is the case ... there's no use getting a cam that produces all of it's power at the top end for a daily driver ... and that's where a lot of the quicker vehicle have that power.

If you are going for a fast time ... yeah ... go for a bigger spec cam that will give you the power up there. But if you are after better driveability on the road ... it is best to get a cam that is suited for better torque lower in the rev range ... and have it dialled in accordingly for your vehicle (auto/man need to be set up differently)

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by Mechan1k

If that is the case ... there's no use getting a cam that produces all of it's power at the top end for a daily driver ... and that's where a lot of the quicker vehicle have that power.

If you are going for a fast time ... yeah ... go for a bigger spec cam that will give you the power up there. But if you are after better driveability on the road ... it is best to get a cam that is suited for better torque lower in the rev range ... and have it dialled in accordingly for your vehicle (auto/man need to be set up differently)

Dam you and your sensible reasoning Simon....: just kidding

Nah I know what your saying mate, I gotta think realistically over ego. Something I have trouble with. lol

I guess Im gonna have to re-look at the cams available to suit what I REALLY NEED rather than what I think sounds good.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by blueoval

The thing is for me, Im not worried about it pulling times. More on making sure the power is where it should be and cam is working to its potential.

Like the guy below this post just said, you don't need a big cam, and probably the one you gave specs for earlier on in this thread or similar would the trick.
Personally I would look at a DEV3 or DEV3HL with some minor head work.

Should be a very nice well behaved performance street car.
It would likely still run mid to high 14's with normal gearing and street type running gear.