Aussies dead in Shot down plane crash over Ukraine.

[metalmania]

Originally Posted by brismike

Really? .. I think you need to wake up mate. I'm fully aware of what has happened. It is all over the news here too and has been for days. Difference is here it is big bad David Cameron (UK PM) who has been doing all the tough talk.

My point was there has been no mention in the normal daily news (BBC/ITV)here (UK) of Tony Abbott leading the charge in the Western world against the big bad Vladimir Putin.

Do you really think that Russia gives a stuff what Abbot says? The rest of the world doesn't seem to.

BTW I didn't look at the vid you posted

Sorry to confuse you brismike, but my post was not directed at you. It was directed at BHBOGS. A couple of posts before.
BTW have a look at the link i posted. I am trying to state that our precious media is just as bad as the other side. There is not much truth coming out of anywhere...
What do the call that..the fog of war!!!!

http://rt.com/news/174332-ukraine-pl...oto-perverted/

[BHDOGS]

The fact is western media will always be influence by western ideals its why i like aljazeera or even international bbc they do give a good honest account of themselves most times. Anybody who thinks ukraine arnt playing this up to gather maximum sympathy for there cause would be kidding themselves but thats straight out of putins play book its why he said lets not use this for political advantage but the fact is hes the master manipulator of news good or bad and its nice to see putin get a good taste of his own medicine. Its an international incident a tragic one that casts a big spot light on an issue that the world usualy just ignores if we all paid attention to such trouble spots earlier instead of turning a blind eye like the world likes to do on a regular basis we could avoid these incidents.

[Dash_XR]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

Germany Britain and france still rule the roost always have. You could of said russia is the only asian powerhouse but that isnt true anymore either. There influence is weaked on all fronts there gas is the only card russia has to play these days.

No they don't and Russia's biggest ally has more troops then those three have bullets (not that it would ever come to that). They have also lost or suffered miserable defeats in allot of their biggest recent campaigns (add Iraq and eventually Afghanistan to the list). They do allot more for Europe then the declining empire does so when push comes to shove most people will probably rather stay warm then salute the flag.

Maybe we need to spilt this topic? Australian death toll is now 37 not 28 too.

[BHDOGS]

Germany is an economic powerhouse that basically runs the eu not to mention they all have nukes so any talk of wars is pointless armys dont win big battles anymore except against tiny nations. If this was the grand old days russia would of just sent in the tanks but the combined might of economic sanctions is enough to scare even the mightiest of nations. Economy's are what rule the world now not armys.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

Can't we ever have one thread without the conspiracy theory's and American hatred throw in some people here really need to catch up on reality and research this properly instead of swining in at the last minute believing bullshit like the link above.

What is a conspiracy theory... it seems anyone who dares to question the version of events or so called facts put out there by Western media or Governments are labeled a conspiracy theorist loon. Those with their heads stuck most firmly up their own **** can see this event is been used by the EU/US as a way of getting at Russia for their own political agenda.

http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2014/s4050463.htm

I guess if there is one positive out of this, it is on the link above. Those who have read autopsy reports from Pan Am 103 may beg to differ.

PSA 182, Pan Am 103, AeroMexico 498 and now MH17 all put the ***** up me, and are the first thing to come to mind when I'm boarding.

[CoupeKing]

Originally Posted by smoo

What is a conspiracy theory... it seems anyone who dares to question the version of events or so called facts put out there by Western media or Governments are labeled a conspiracy theorist loon.

Its no so much the theory, but the theorists. When they`re wrong time and time and time and time and time and time again. FFS the local bus could be 2 minutes late ''damn Government, cutting costs again''

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by smoo

What is a conspiracy theory... Those with their heads stuck most firmly up their own **** can see this event is been used by the EU/US as a way of getting at Russia for their own political agenda.

No denying the politicians beating their chests and making political mileage within their own countries and on the world stage for all sorts or reasons.

This does not immediately suggest those same politicians are responsible for the event.

Politicians are opportunistic creatures like hyenas, seagulls and rats.

I believe the mostly prevails, 'you can fool some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time'. The conspiracy theorists are numerous, their theories numerous, often contradictory and as mentioned below proved wrong time and time again.

JP

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by smoo

or so called facts

The only facts we have to date regarding this terrible tragedy is:

• The plane was operated by Malaysian Airlines

• The plane was in the area of the Ukraine/Russia disputed territory in which a war of sorts is underway

• The plane crashed, killing all 298 POB.

The rest, at this point in time, is purely speculation.

We need to be careful of allowing our own prejudices and beliefs of getting int he way of the facts. That is the role of an aircraft accident investigator: be ruled by the head and not be the heart.

Kind of reminds me of me talking to my 8 year old daughter of her night time fears. She tells me her heart is racing, and I tell her to try not to listen so much to heart but more to her head. But it is hard to listen to your head when your heart is racing.

Craig H

[cheap]

Originally Posted by psychobimbo

The only facts we have to date regarding this terrible tragedy is:

• The plane was operated by Malaysian Airlines

• The plane was in the area of the Ukraine/Russia disputed territory in which a war of sorts is underway

• The plane crashed, killing all 298 POB.

The rest, at this point in time, is purely speculation.

We need to be careful of allowing our own prejudices and beliefs of getting int he way of the facts. That is the role of an aircraft accident investigator: be ruled by the head and not be the heart.

Kind of reminds me of me talking to my 8 year old daughter of her night time fears. She tells me her heart is racing, and I tell her to try not to listen so much to heart but more to her head. But it is hard to listen to your head when your heart is racing.

Craig H

So where is the murder weapon, the SA-11?

Next we will have Vlad on TV blaming a mid-air collision between MH17 and Santa with his sleigh. If it hadn't occurred to you, let me telegraph the obvious, since the "mistake" the Russians have been in overdrive running a massive clean up and cover up.

[Mesa]

Originally Posted by Dash_XR

Why not throw both presidents in a cage and let them sort it out like men for a change?

They did!! Frankie Goes To Hollywood film clip 'When Two Tribes Go To War'.

[Fordman1]

My hope is that all Australians come home, and that the perpetrators are brought to justice.

Even though I hope they both happen, I have a fear they won't.

I doubt that the perpetrators will ever be found and prosecuted.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by cheap

If it hadn't occurred to you, let me telegraph the obvious, since the "mistake" the Russians have been in overdrive running a massive clean up and cover up.

Never said that these things weren't a possibility, nor any other theories put forward on this forum, in the media or anywhere else for that matter.

But at this point in time, that is all they are: theories. Yet to be proven.

Craig H

[metalmania]

http://rt.com/news/174868-ukraine-bu...ion-continues/

[chamb0]

Originally Posted by metalmania

http://rt.com/news/174868-ukraine-bu...ion-continues/

Russia Today... "bringing the Russian view on global news" and widely recognised as an outlet for Kremlin propaganda. A great example of a national broadcaster cultivated with what you might call a "basic affection for the home team."

[Bobman]

Who changed the title? 27 Australians + 1 with dual passport (total 28), not "37".

[Dash_XR]

https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/24505410...tragedy-rises/

http://m.theaustralian.com.au/in-dep...1b7fc704d3852c

[NAK302]

i know this is a sad event to all who lost loved ones and i feel for them.

having said that, the Yanks are very lucky there was no www with facebook and such back on the 3rd of July 1988. hypocrits?

[CoupeKing]

Originally Posted by GT-0733

having said that, the Yanks are very lucky there was no www with facebook and such back on the 3rd of July 1988. hypocrits?

September 1, 1983. Open both eyes

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by GT-0733

i know this is a sad event to all who lost loved ones and i feel for them.

having said that, the Yanks are very lucky there was no www with facebook and such back on the 3rd of July 1988. hypocrits?

This is partly my point with my two posts above. Whilst MH17 may well have been brought down by a Gadfly, there is a possibility that it was a genuine (but tragic) mistake on behalf of the operator(s), in not too dissimilar a way to the incident you refer to. However, it appears to me as though our own prejudices, beliefs and feelings have led us all (especially western media) to the conclusion (without substantiation at this point, by the way) that this was a deliberate act.

For those not familiar with the incident referred to, a quick summary is that an Iranian Air aircraft was shot down by the USS Vincennes on a flight from Tehran to Dubai. There is conjecture as to exactly what happened, but I believe the general consensus is that the aircraft was accidentally targeted as it departed an Iranian airfield that also operated military aircraft and entered a zone where the US Navy was engaged with Iranian patrol boats. Of course, there were far more contributing factors than this, but you can wiki the incident for more info if anyone is interested.

Craig H

[NAK302]

Originally Posted by CoupeKing

September 1, 1983. Open both eyes

looks like i managed to open everyones eyes. we are force fed through our one eyed media outlets which are in turn fed from a one eyed propaganda machine. i'm trying to point out that the loudest voices have just as much blood on their hands. the world is full of atrocities, but only selected ones are shoved in your face each night at 6pm.

[Cashie]

Originally Posted by psychobimbo

This is partly my point with my two posts above. Whilst MH17 may well have been brought down by a Gadfly, there is a possibility that it was a genuine (but tragic) mistake on behalf of the operator(s), in not too dissimilar a way to the incident you refer to. However, it appears to me as though our own prejudices, beliefs and feelings have led us all (especially western media) to the conclusion (without substantiation at this point, by the way) that this was a deliberate act.

For those not familiar with the incident referred to, a quick summary is that an Iranian Air aircraft was shot down by the USS Vincennes on a flight from Tehran to Dubai. There is conjecture as to exactly what happened, but I believe the general consensus is that the aircraft was accidentally targeted as it departed an Iranian airfield that also operated military aircraft and entered a zone where the US Navy was engaged with Iranian patrol boats. Of course, there were far more contributing factors than this, but you can wiki the incident for more info if anyone is interested.

Craig H

Originally Posted by CoupeKing

September 1, 1983. Open both eyes

Goodpoint, the USSR (as it was) have done the same (and they initially denied it), sound familiar?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_...nes_Flight_007

Bit scary when you read about this one, a USSR fighter aircraft closed to within 2000yds (well inside visual confirmation range), knew it was a civilian boeing airliner, and still engaged the aircraft. Claims were made by the USSR it was a spy plane....

[Bill M]

MH17: Pro-Russian separatist commander acknowledges fighters had Buk missile launcher.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-2...ad-buk/5619520

[cram_it_frog]

Another Aircraft crash and more dead

AIPEI, Taiwan — Dozens of people aboard a plane flying to a Taiwanese island were killed on Wednesday when the aircraft crashed in bad weather during an emergency landing, Taiwan’s Transportation Ministry said

what is it with aircraft it sound as if they should not have been flying

why are aircraft companies making these risky decisions is it all based on you have to fly because you need to make money

or what?

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by GT-0733

looks like i managed to open everyones eyes. we are force fed through our one eyed media outlets which are in turn fed from a one eyed propaganda machine. i'm trying to point out that the loudest voices have just as much blood on their hands. the world is full of atrocities, but only selected ones are shoved in your face each night at 6pm.

At the time both the Korean, and Iranian airplanes shot down by USSR and USA combatants respectively were adequately covered in the media. I have seen plenty of corespondents discussing the similarities between them and MH17 over recent days.
Perhaps you need to broaden your news reports from the herald sun or channel 10 or whatever to further a field, Guardian, BBC, Al Jazeera or similar especially if they have no corporate, national or social links to the news story, its location or the individuals within the story....
There is enough non biased media around the world reporting similar stories to those news outlets in the west to suggest no particular bias.
I agree there are some media groups that a propaganda machines for the wealthy...

JP

[cram_it_frog]

jpblue1000

The press have a huge amount of power some say too much, look at Rupert Murdochh is trying to buy out Time Warner who owns a lot of media

I saw a documentary saying it was certain news media bosses that helped push Gough Whitlam out of office

The big media bosses decide what news items they will push over other items.

Take Rolf Harris from what friends in the UK have said he was guilty from day one and if you look up some U on line news papers they are still reporting on how soft a deal he got , instead of going to a maximum security jail he was sent to a low security jail

I am lucky with age and experience I have learned that the press never let the truth get in the way of a good story now that is sad but true.

[cheap]

Here we go again,

Wealthy = evil
Poor = good
Western press (Murdoch) = lies
Al Jazeera, Gardian, Pravda (insert your favourite socialist left wing rag) = truth
Individual freedom = bad
Government managing the how/where/what of people's lives (like it does in Russia) = solution
Russia created the situation by giving the separatists the SA-11 murder weapon = BS

A big conspiracy by (insert your favourite "evil" organisation/country/corporation) to smear Russia/Putin, because Russia has oil/gas/diamonds/everything and is a threat to the oppressive Western Powers. The West has brain washed their people. Except for a few people on AFF who have the guts to expose it all...

[Yellow_Festiva]

Another plane has been reported down in Africa. On the way to Algiers I think. Looked like a small commercial passenger plane. Bloody hell.

[Lotte]

It's not (definitely) down. They've lost contact. They don't know what's happened.

I'm gonna take a guess that with all this happening, airlines all over the shop are going to be taking massive hits in sales.

[blueoval]

Sorry if this was posted before but would Joe Bidon (US vice president) son who works for a Ukrainian energy company have anything to do with whats going on? I heard he was made president of that company.

http://www.thewire.com/global/2014/0...ompany/372385/

[TheSneakiness]

What the **** is it with the conspiracy nutters?

The evidence is there in ****in plain black and white. Pro Russian separatists in the Ukraine got hold of something they shouldn't have and ****** up.

Oh no the US did it cause *insert the US needs this reason*.

Go put your tinfoil hats back on and hide in your bunkers.