Car Insurance

[arm79]

Had to go through this rigmarole in the last 2 weeks for all our cars.

Enthusiast is only interested in insuring garage queens i found. Something that only gets driven once a month on a Sunday in the sunshine. And you have to provide a picture of the odometer every year and before an incident to prove you haven't gone outside your km range.

Enthusiast wanted 35% to insure my car and 60% more to insure Dad's under the same circumstances.

Went through quotes with a ton of insurers, big and small, and staying with Shannons was a no brainer. No one came close. The premiums are still a decent leap from last year, and the year before for that matter, but the comparative new policy quote exceeds make Shannons look good. Even insurers who promote themselves as cost friendly.

[Trevor 57]

Our friend is with Budget Direct, she hit a kangaroo a week or more back, her excess is $600, they hit her up for $900 as they 'couldn't sue the kangaroo', they then dropped her Rating 1 to a Rating 3 - Don't touch Budget Direct

I have my 3 'classics' with Enthusiasts for the same reasons as listed. Our 2 daily's are with Woolworths

[uranium_death]

Insurance companies do not reward loyalty
In a highly competitive market, new business is their focus
My mate has been with AAMI for 15 years. He learned a long time ago that it's cheaper to cancel his existing policy and create a new one than continue with the same policy.
No loss of benefit either.

My old man has been driving for 60 years. In all that time, he has only made one at-fault claim - which was 25 years ago when Mum made a wrongful assumption and hit a car at a roundabout. They also had a not-at-fault incident when the VC Wagon was written off on GF night '87 when a drunk driver ran up their tail on Warragul Road. He blew 0.165.
Despite his record, GIO increased his premium massively last year. Yes, I know he's over 80, but he hardly drives, and is in excellent health. He has to negotiate like a bitch every single time.

When it comes to insurance, it's a value judgement on what you get for what you pay.
You have to actively shop around and read the fine(r) print.

Insurance companies are the best example of 'lazy tax', where people blindly pay without shopping around.

Been reading about people's Shannon's nightmares on this forum for a long time.

[arm79]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

Our friend is with Budget Direct, she hit a kangaroo a week or more back, her excess is $600, they hit her up for $900 as they 'couldn't sue the kangaroo', they then dropped her Rating 1 to a Rating 3 - Don't touch Budget Direct

Everyone loves Budget's PDS and policies because of the cheaper than average premiums they offer.

Until that PDS is used against them...

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by arm79

Everyone loves Budget's PDS and policies because of the cheaper than average premiums they offer.

Until that PDS is used against them...

Hands up anyone who reads AND understands any insurance companies PDS

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

Hands up anyone who reads AND understands any insurance companies PDS

Well, I try to, many moons ago I got screwed over from the old SIO on a claim, hopefully never again.

[hawke]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

Hands up anyone who reads AND understands any insurance companies PDS

I do.

When I had a real job, I used to write these things, and train staff, agents and brokers on what they mean. And how the various legislation affected the effectiveness of the PDS. And also wrote and developed internal and external dispute resolution procedures that are still in force today.

Any questions- fire away.

[arm79]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

Hands up anyone who reads AND understands any insurance companies PDS

You don't have to fully understand it, but at least get a grasp on the basic responsibilities and conditions the company expects of you in the event of a claim.

Like the lady who had her Porsche Cayenne stolen from her garage in Brisbane.

She was insured with Budget Direct, because they were cheapest of course, and when she lodged the claim and they asked "how do you think the stole it" and she said something about "the spare key left in her bag that was in the locked car".

If the clown had read the PDS, then she would have known there was a line in the PDS that said "any key left in the vehicle under any circumstance instantly voids cover and the claim will be denied" or something under those lines. If she'd know then then she probably would have said it.

The car was recovered, but all repairs are at her own cost now. I suppose, on the bright side, she wont have any claim held against her... Because there is no claim to make.

Or when everyone had their claims denied after a flood because they didn't realise the PDS said you "need to make all reasonable and safe attempts to move the car out of danger". But people just left their cars parked in the path of floodwaters for days just waiting to commit insurance fraud.

I always read and compare the PDS between different companies to know what I'm buying. Which is why cheapest isn't always best.

[hawke]

One thing that is important to understand is that Motor Insurance in Australia is a "specified policy". That is, it has to provide at a minimum, a level of cover that is prescribed in the Regulations. There are other policies - Home, Contents, Consumer Credit Etc - that are also specified and regulated.

If an insurer wants to provide lesser cover than that specified, then they have to do certain things, before the contract is entered into, to allow those restrictions to be enforceable. In my experience, they don't.

From what has been suggested by ARM79, it is arguable that the insurer did not comply with those requirements, and a quick review of the insurers PDS did not comply with the Insurance Contracts Act.

I would suggest that those insureds seek some remedy via the various dispute resolution facilities that are available to all insureds.

[Citroënbender]

I’ve just been jagged by a weasel-like insurance clause.

Went to collect a friend’s car, it needed a pink slip. Before taking it up to the workshop I chose to do a basic quick check, in case anything needed remedying.

I didn’t check the handbrake before the lights/horn.

When I put the car in reverse, key on/engine off, the handbrake didn’t hold at all. It rolled backwards down the driveway before I could jump in and stand on the footbrake, striking another family member’s car on the way past.

The runaway car was only on third party. It has required a door and guard, now addressed. The insurer has stated that because both vehicles were registered to the same address - despite me being the culprit - they will not cover damage to the second vehicle. This is about $4500 worth (repairs to quarter, alloy wheel, bumper, sill mould, R&R glazing, paint and blend).

If this decision to decline cover is upheld, it’s cheapest for me to settle for cash with the other owner, as the alternative will likely be their insurer instituting a recovery against me.

[FTE217]

cheeez CB, I supopose thats in the policy fine print.
Unreal but not suprised, sorry for the accident and the likely out of pocket.

[Citroënbender]

As they say, no good deed goes unpunished.

[hawke]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

I’ve just been jagged by a weasel-like insurance clause.

Went to collect a friend’s car, it needed a pink slip. Before taking it up to the workshop I chose to do a basic quick check, in case anything needed remedying.

I didn’t check the handbrake before the lights/horn.

When I put the car in reverse, key on/engine off, the handbrake didn’t hold at all. It rolled backwards down the driveway before I could jump in and stand on the footbrake, striking another family member’s car on the way past.

The runaway car was only on third party. It has required a door and guard, now addressed. The insurer has stated that because both vehicles were registered to the same address - despite me being the culprit - they will not cover damage to the second vehicle. This is about $4500 worth (repairs to quarter, alloy wheel, bumper, sill mould, R&R glazing, paint and blend).

If this decision to decline cover is upheld, it’s cheapest for me to settle for cash with the other owner, as the alternative will likely be their insurer instituting a recovery against me.

M Citroen, a couple of extra questions. Is the second car owned by the same person as the first? If so, its arguable that they are not a "third" party, so the liability policy of the first car may not respond.

Have you received a formal letter of declinature? If so, then there should be info regarding the Insurer's Internal Dispute Resolution procedure. Use it, you have little to lose.

What is the relationship between you and the owners of the vehicles? Are they family or do you have a close personal relationship with them? If so, Section 65 of the Insurance Contracts Act could apply. There are restrictions for insurers to subrogate against such people. For fun read this: https://www.williamroberts.com.au/na...acts-act-1984/

If the insurer does try to subrogate against you, they have to prove that you were negligent. It's arguable that you were not. If you were, then there is some potential for your household insurance policy to assist - but there are further questions regarding that policy wording and if the first vehicle is registered.

Happy to help further if needed.

[Citroënbender]

I appreciate your seasoned input.

The only “formal” decline so far has been a very brief email citing the insurer’s reason to decline the claim. I would presume the insured parties both have not opted out of email as an acceptable alternative to paper communication.

Vehicles are owned by separate parties.

Negligence would be difficult to “prove” one would think - but I may well be wrong there.

[hawke]

So who sent the declining email? If the insurer, then the insured needs to press for a formal declinature, and then ask for the claim to be referred to their Internal Dispute Resolution (IDR) officer.

And are you family or a close personal friend of the insured?

[Citroënbender]

Thank you again. I would probably be described as a personal friend of the insured, yes. My presence there was out of goodwill - not for reward.

I’ll ask them to seek a formal decliniture, as you’ve articulated.

[arm79]

As hawke has suggested, take a look into the public liability section of YOUR contents insurance - should you have it. I've only ever seen this in the contents policy, but might be offered elsewhere.

Some insurers have an allowance to cover the regular residents of the insured address of the contents policy for a claim for accidental personal injury and/or property damage against another party unrelated to the insured address.

For AAMI is in the legal liability section of their PDS. An example of a claimable incident, from their own text, is:

While riding a pushbike along the road, your son who lives with you accidentally rode into a parked car causing damage and scratches to the paintwork of the vehicle. It is determined that your son is liable. The cost to repair the damage to the vehicle is $2,000. In this example, a AAMI Flexi-Premiums® excess of $400 applies.

I assume it is intended to cover other things like when your ramaging toddler throws a Hot Wheels through the centre of your best mates brand new 85" OLED TV while you are over there on a visit.

Essentially accidental damages or loss to a third party by an act by yourself outside of your home.

As a worst case it might be a cheaper way out of it.

On a personal note, on the flip side of the argument, I'm not sure why they would consider you at fault or you would consider a need for yourself to compensate them.

By the sounds if it you were doing a favor for a friend. I'm assuming they didn't tell you there was a problem with the handbrake. It's not as if you were negligent and it could just have likely happened to them as it did you. If they wanted any eventuality to be covered, just in case, then they should have paid a professional to do the job. Someone who has their own coverage incase of incident.

It would be like if you were moving someone else's Falcon out of a driveway to make way for another car and the ball joint collapsed and damaged the front end. In no way could you be held liable for that.

Justs my 5.7c (2c + covid tax + inflation).

[Citroënbender]

I looked at my contents PDS (some “Over 50s” product from a regular name). Very similar example to yours.

The Mercedes owner was unwilling to pursue formal decliniture and escalate a complaint, leaving the matter between myself and the insurer of the second vehicle.