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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
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#61 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 883
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Dunno if this link works .....
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/austr...1i8mjW#details. If something didn't happen, how do they know it could have happened 500,000 times. I could beat Kyle Chambers in 100m freestyle swimming, but as it hasn't happened yet, he doesn't know about it, and I am happy with my imaginary world record. |
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#62 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,804
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#63 | ||
Rob
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Woodcroft S.A.
Posts: 21,476
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Driving around today I think I've discovered why many don't like tech like lane keeper /lane assist. These systems use cameras etc to keep the car relatively central to the painted lane.
A large percentage of people use the painted markings on the road as a rough guide only.
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UA2 TREND 4WD BI TURBO |
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#64 | |||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,000
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#65 | |||
DIY Tragic
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Sydney, more than not. I hate it.
Posts: 21,764
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I love how bundying off for 24h every Friday evening means I am likely to come back and find one or two AFF threads are now mudfights.
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I’m disappointed in whynot using research to propel an argument. Scientific input has no place in online disputes. |
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#66 | ||
Rob
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Woodcroft S.A.
Posts: 21,476
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Cherry picking data to suit a viewpoint.
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UA2 TREND 4WD BI TURBO |
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#67 | ||
Looking for clues...
![]() ![]() Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Morayfield
Posts: 23,126
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Emergency Lane Keeping, Land Keep Assist, Cruise Control Distance systems are all relatively new.
Viewpoints on how they work, their effectiveness are even newer. We don't have enough real information to be effectively arguing with conviction. Lets keep it civil, please, and thank you. I let a lot of things ride, but don't want to let a thread get out of hand.
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2016 Ford Falcon FG/X XR6 Turbo you beaut ute 1985 XR4Ti Sierra - Build Thread 1971 Fairlane 500 and... a collection of Jeep Towpigs and... two collections of rust and some new plastic bits roughly shaped like an F-Truck and.... some spare metal bits with holes in them |
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#68 | |||||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,000
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Quote:
![]() The fines can be nothing really (depends on the magistrate) but the ramifications of criminal convictions are wide-reaching, you don't have discrimination protection against being discriminated against in this area in some states, like you with discrimination protection on race/identity/gender/equal opportunity. The protections available now only partially exist in VIC since 2021/2022 with some new at the time legislation - and it still doesn't introduce discrimination protection, it just hides someones ability to see your conviction depending on how the chips fall in court. Check out this one for 25 over: Quote:
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The fine was only $850 but it cost me about $4000+ by the time you take into account paying impound fees, looking nice for court and paying lawyers, If you take into account lost income on the driving ban if you relied on your car to get to work like most people do, than that figure raises to around $70,000. I'm open about it because I want others to understand the potential ramifications, its not just the potential for accident its the administration side that you don't expect - but I understand if current Franco said this to past Franco, I'd have told myself to GAGF ![]() Certainly changed my attitude behind the wheel, thats for sure. Last edited by Franco Cozzo; 03-08-2024 at 11:38 PM. |
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#69 | |||
T3/Sprint8
![]() Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 16,309
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Quote:
True be curious to really know the facts - prydey quoted about more hospitalisation’s increased - don’t know where he got that intel from. Franco thanks for the info and noting how much you have changed your road manners without tech assisting you. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Tickfords T3/TS50 '02 Sprint8 manual Sept 24 '16 Daily Macan GTS "Don't believe everything you read on the internet. Abraham Lincoln" |
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#70 | |||
Chairman & Administrator
![]() ![]() Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: 1975
Posts: 106,996
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Quote:
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Observatio Facta Rotae
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#71 | |||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,000
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Quote:
The rise since 2020 is interesting, people are more ruthless than ever on Melbourne's roads, there's an attitude change in the air, people are more stressed out and willing to go off the deep end with the slightest push. I reckon it's to do with the economy and stagnant wage growth, it's struggle street out there and people are one bad day away from ending up on the street. The last month I've been involved in a road rage incident (that wasn't my fault) and a blue with a neighbouring business over rubbish dumping allegations and the latter involved one party carrying edged weapons. |
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#72 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Catland
Posts: 3,592
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Is the neighbouring business an edged weapon manufacturer?
Thank you for detailing the nature of the speeding fines and process too, Franco. Russellw, thank you for the stats, to clarify, does "..4.2 in 2020 but it has since increased by 2.5%, 4.9% and 3.5%..." mean 2021 4.2 x 1.025 2022 that number by 1.049 2023 that next number by 1.035 or 2021 4.2+2.5 = 6.7 2022 4.2+4.9 = 9.1 2023 4.2+3.5 = 7.7 or something different like a compounding % of the 4.2? And Why is the road toll increasing if we are safer than ever? And If these systems are AOK, why is ANCAP acting the way that it is, subject of this thread?
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I6 + AWD |
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#73 | ||
HUGH JARSE
![]() Join Date: May 2005
Location: Yap-Hoon
Posts: 21,467
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It was diffrent back in my day.
Cross ply tyres No seat belts No speed limits on open roads Bench seats Three on a tree Plus we dove cars at speed when drunk. Drunk drivers were the leading cause of accidents. Now it is sober drivers the major cause of accidents Sorry, they are called crashes now. Let's get those sober drivers off the roads and let drunk drivers sort out any problems with hoons, road surfaces, speed limits and poor signing. |
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#74 | ||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Perth
Posts: 590
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Quote:
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https://www.news.com.au/national/wes...dbf6c4dc106065 Hows the managers name - "Horse" ![]()
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Daily Driver - FG GS Ute Toys - 351 XY Falcon and FG GT |
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#75 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 995
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I have spent the last day or so trolling through research into Lane Keep Assist (LKA). (Unfortunately, I have lost access to my university’s library database, and so I am stuck with open text articles via Google Scholar.)
I must admit that the more I read the literature the more I am left with a sinking feeling that ANCAP was too far ahead of the technology in mandating that ADAS is forced default-on at every vehicle start. We are going to see a few million cars sold in Australia the next couple years. With a sizable percentage fitted with ADAS systems that are going to seriously annoy its drivers. Lane Keep Assist (LKA), Lane Departure Warning (LDW), Blind Spot Detection (BSD), Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC), Autonomous Emergency Braking (AEB), Electronic Stability Control (ESC) and the rest of the alphabet soup of acronyms fall under the umbrella term of Advanced Driver Assist Systems (ADAS). Of the literature that I have read through, most research has concentrated on Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC) / Autonomous Emergency Braking (AEB) as one subgroup and Lane Keep Assist (LKA) / Lane Departure Warning (LDW) as the other subgroup of ADAS. All the literature that I read acknowledged that Autonomous Emergency Braking and Lane Keep Assist was prone to erroneous misfires and on occasion failed to operate when presented with the correct triggers. Further, the literature also acknowledged these issues were distracting to the driver and resulted in a general loss of confidence in the vehicle. That said, international journals stated that of the driver assist technologies Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC) was the most accepted assist system by drivers and contributed most to reduction in accidents. Australian research by Monash, “The Potential Benefits of Lane Keep Assist Systems in Australian Light Vehicles, REPORT NO. 365”, stated “… if all light passenger vehicles in vehicles in Australia were fitted with AEB, the estimated reduction in total injuries would be 10% for fatalities and serious injuries and 9% for minor injuries…” In a separate publication by the same authors, “The Potential Benefits of Autonomous Emergency Braking Systems in Australia, REPORT NO. 339”, it was stated “ … statistically significant 16% reduction in the risk of involvement in all casualty crashes of these types and a 22% reduction estimated for fatal and serious injury crashes was associated with LKA fitment to Australian light vehicle was estimated…” However, these conclusions by Monash Research was challenged in this report; “Quantifying the Lost Safety Benefits of ADAS Technologies Due to Inadequate Supporting Road Infrastructure”, Special Issue Current and Future Issues in Transportation Safety and Sustainability, 2022. If you want to dig out a copy (it is open source) the title is https://doi.org/10.3390/su14042234 For example, the authors of this study noted: “For example, AEB is unlikely to be effective on gravel or unsealed roads and lane keep assist technologies are unlikely to function at all on roads that have poor or no delineation. Therefore, the ability of these technologies to perform optimally will most likely be compromised in locations where supportive road infrastructure is absent … Research that quantifies the predicted benefits of AEB and LKA often fail to acknowledge assumptions made about roads on which cars fitted with these technologies will be driven … Studies that have previously estimated the benefits of advanced driver assist technologies have been conducted on the basis that road conditions are always adequate to support the technologies. The assumption that the entire road network is fully supportive of systems such as AEB, LKA and ISA, however, is severely flawed…” “ … Across the three states, close to 50% of LKA-sensitive crashes have historically occurred on arterial, and sub-arterial (or equivalent roads), where delineation was found to be less than adequate, potentially compromising the ability of LKA function, once all vehicles are fitted with the technology. Based on the LKA-sensitive crashes in the historical crash data, up to 138 fatalities and 142 serious injuries may not be avoided annually across the three Australian states based on lack of delineation availability …” A key word in all of the reports mentioned above is that the crash “ … is sensitive …” to AEB, LKA, or both. It does not say that AEB or LKA will prevent the accident. It just says that AEB and/or LKA may assist in reducing the accident severity, with an unknown reduction if fatal or serious injuries. So now we have this interesting circular argument. A poor road surface and/or lack of marked lines is considered to contribute to an accident. So, the bureaucrats then suggest mandatory implementation of AEB and LKA to prevent accidents that nether system can mitigate (due to poor road surface). Instead of dollars being spent on LKA, it makes be wonder why the government doesn't paint more white lines on the road. At the very least clean up the white lines they have painted. Seems like a simple way to reduce the road toll. Still, there is one bottom line estimate for LKA Australian conditions. It was estimated that every vehicle had LKA then up to 138 fatalities and 142 serious injuries (50%) may be avoided in Vic, SA, and Qld. And it was estimated 50% 138 fatalities and 142 serious injuries will not be avoided because there are no lines on the road for LKA to detect. |
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#76 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Hervey Bay
Posts: 5,195
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Quote:
And if that wasn't enough, I drove a car that can do that as standard. And it did slam the brakes on on me in a 110km/h zone unexpectedly and unnecessarily and almost caused a 3 car accident. I then pulled over and had to go through the manual to work out how to turn it off. |
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#77 | |||
Regular...with metamusal
![]() Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Geeeloong
Posts: 6,336
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Quote:
you also have to have a road/s in good repair ....... not signs saying "rough surface" - which we have had for years [without signs] ..... and getting worse. |
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#78 | |||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,000
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Quote:
If the government decided that we were all to shove pinecones up our asses, Monash would come out with a study extolling the virtues of shoving pinecones up your ***. Pack of flogs, I've never once seen them do something against the government agenda and the state government is always pushing extra funding to them, funny how that works. Reminds me when my last employer asked me to audit my own sales team and why we came back looking like children of the corn who could do no wrong. Last edited by Franco Cozzo; 04-08-2024 at 11:26 PM. |
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#79 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,804
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because the government has to spend money to fix the roads, rather than forcing us to spend money on cars with dubious tech.
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#80 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Catland
Posts: 3,592
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Quote:
Sometimes with a 1+ tonne animal moving at 20 kts it's way more than a bite.
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I6 + AWD |
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#81 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Catland
Posts: 3,592
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Quote:
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I6 + AWD |
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#82 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,635
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My 5 years as a service advisor in a multi franchise dealer was very interesting.
My advice would be to never buy the first of an all new model. One particular new model had the habit of jamming the brakes on while cruising at 100km/h for no apparent reason. This wasn’t from one particular car or customer but a common complaint a few years back. You NEVER get the full story from any manufacturer, but these systems received updates and the issue just seemed to fade away. I also had a couple of customers who claimed lane keep systems directly resulted in collisions. One customer claimed her car suddenly steered into roadside barriers. There is no doubt to me that not all these systems are created equal. Some brand obviously spend the time on real world testing and nail the calibration. Others rush these systems to market before they are ready. It’s also obvious these systems are improving. The calibrations are improving. The operation of the systems is improving. However I don’t agree with the increasing implementation of more and more systems. They are now a distraction and have gone too far. I believe some of these systems will cause fatalities as drivers are looking at the dash wondering what that beep was for, instead of concentrating on what is going on around them. It’s now the boy that cried wolf. The latest cars are by far the worst as far as distraction goes. They beep every time there is a change of speed limit. They beep if you exceed the speed limit by 2km/h. They beep if you drive over a line. They beep, they beep, they beep. I’m now a car salesman. The most common question on a test drive is now “what was that beep for?” I never “set up” the car and turn these systems off for a test drive. I do my best to answer questions about these systems and be as honest as I can. I’d rather not sell a car than have someone unhappy with their purchase. If someone doesn’t buy a car from me because of a feature I have explained, then I have done my job. I live in fear a customer will not love their new car. The biggest reason for complaints with new car purchases now is definitely ADAS. Manufacturers are listening and often updates will come in the form of buttons or settings to turn these systems off. There are some cars I simply wouldn’t buy because of the over implementation or over sensitivity of these systems. I’m not against technology and absolutely love when new models are released. But the term “drivers car” seems to have disappeared from the market. I believe there should be an awareness campaign about exactly what ANCAP is, what they do, and how they are funded. They are not a regulatory body. They don’t make legislation. I believe they keep adding more and more systems to their “mandatory” lists to try and stay relevant and keep the government funding pouring in. |
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#83 | ||
T3/Sprint8
![]() Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 16,309
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Brilliant and real world informed post Top !
Agree. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Tickfords T3/TS50 '02 Sprint8 manual Sept 24 '16 Daily Macan GTS "Don't believe everything you read on the internet. Abraham Lincoln" |
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#84 | |||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,000
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Quote:
The guy doesn't drink and he's a stale old man so I seriously doubt it was him doing it. |
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#85 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Catland
Posts: 3,592
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Quote:
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I6 + AWD |
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#86 | ||
T3/Sprint8
![]() Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 16,309
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I’m currently travelling Tas in current model Corolla hybrid.
Got to say impressed by its suspension feels so sure footed and absorbs the bumps with aplomb. The LKA is an utter joke for the general average driver imo. I could see my wife totally misread what to do. Sure you feel the wheel shudder but it doesn’t pull you back in line per se it actually feels it’s steering you even more off centre. It’s very deceiving and I can see it causing accidents or going off the road more than staying on the road as said talking about the average driver. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Tickfords T3/TS50 '02 Sprint8 manual Sept 24 '16 Daily Macan GTS "Don't believe everything you read on the internet. Abraham Lincoln" |
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#87 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 883
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Quote:
On the trip home, it started beeping on the freeway, and I am looking for red dash lights and, and temp gauge to work out what, slowing down, and generally thinking that I had bought a dud. Spotted an image of a tree and park table ....... I had been driving for 2 hours. Certainly alerted and alarmed me causing a short loss of concentration, and now just annoys me. New car, beeps and bongs and chimes and flashing lights? No thanks. |
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