V8 Supercars Texas round

[FalconXV]

I asked this question on Blue Oval Forums a while back.
As many of you know, there'll be a round of the V8s at Circuit of Americas in Texas early next year.

In this race all entrants ( Chevrolet SS ala Commo, Altima, E-Class) will be familiar products to the American public except one.
Most attendees wouldn't know what a Falcon is.

I know full well this is V8SC's initiative and not Fords, but do you think Ford will seize an opportunity to test the waters with the US public with some market research?

If they brought in a stand with, say a G6E, FPV R-spec for attendees to check out, it gives them an opportunity to hear what people are looking for in a large car going forward (globally), and compare it to domestic Taurus.

I know alot of them bag the FG for looking too conservative/ 90s but seeing it in person might sway them.

And who knows, if the Falcon wins the race, that would make it more desirable again and could create a groundswell of smitten Yanks to loud for Dearborn to ignore. Thoughts?

I'd especially like to hear what Ford PR's position on this is.

[MITCHAY]

Honestly they would be stupid not to take some demos over even if it is just for show. Out of all the markets in the world the US one is one to try break into.

They have absolutely zero to lose. There is everything to be gained by gauging the local perception.

Big cars, powerful motors. Everything is bigger in Texas as they say!

[jpd80]

I'm sorry but what's the point of showing Americans a car Ford has zero intention of exporting there.
The V8SC Falcons will show American fans what the body looks like, that's 80% of the deal anyway...

[GasoLane]

Erm... I think the Falcon was in Seppoland before it was here, and given that they have Mustangs and Shelby I don't think they'd look twice at an FPV

[Buntz]

Yeah.... not gonna happen. Far as I am aware, they are still committed to Taurus. And they wouldn't want anything rippling their bland buzz box pond.

[FPV GTHO]

Its an interesting proposal but it always comes back to the US preferring FWD/AWD in their passenger sedans (which is what Falcon is first and foremost) and even the minority that are crying for a RWD large sedan are currently catered for by the Chrysler twins and will soon have the SS. It will be interesting to see whether that market grows or if its the same number of people buying large RWD sedans and Chrysler suffers.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

Its an interesting proposal but it always comes back to the US preferring FWD/AWD in their passenger sedans (which is what Falcon is first and foremost) and even the minority that are crying for a RWD large sedan are currently catered for by the Chrysler twins and will soon have the SS. It will be interesting to see whether that market grows or if its the same number of people buying large RWD sedans and Chrysler suffers.

Not sure if the US prefers it... but if they actually care, and will take what they are given.

With of course.. Chrysler being the exception. I'm kind of warming up to Chrysler.

[FalconXV]

So much negativity. So many assumptions. Yes they may only drive FWD cars, they might not take FPV's etc if they have the Shelby. But why miss a chance for another market to see, feel experience the cars, and give valuable feedback about their priorities? I'm not necessarily talking export, just the direction the D/E platform goes in.

Otherwise theres an orphan Ford on the track nobody there knows about, if it wins then nobody's intrigued in the series because they can't identify with the winner.
GM can see fit to make a business case for sending Commodores there (and lets face it, there IS a business case any way you look at it, otherwise it would not be happening),
Can nobody see an opportunity here for Ford on any level?

[vztrt]

I would like to see what the reaction to the ute would be. Some seem to be calling for a small ute as the F150 is now much bigger.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

Honestly they would be stupid not to take some demos over even if it is just for show.

We know they are stupid so put your money on ....

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by FalconXV

So much negativity. So many assumptions. Yes they may only drive FWD cars, they might not take FPV's etc if they have the Shelby. But why miss a chance for another market to see, feel experience the cars, and give valuable feedback about their priorities? I'm not necessarily talking export, just the direction the D/E platform goes in.

Otherwise theres an orphan Ford on the track nobody there knows about, if it wins then nobody's intrigued in the series because they can't identify with the winner.
GM can see fit to make a business case for sending Commodores there (and lets face it, there IS a business case any way you look at it, otherwise it would not be happening),
Can nobody see an opportunity here for Ford on any level?

Just being realistic ol' chap. Only thing that saves the Falcon is the Wizards at FoA that make it a viable market offering for chunk change. Otherwise if it cost as much as Taurus development, then I suspect Ford would have replaced it years ago.

[Luke Plaizier]

Sounds like a brilliant idea.

They were able to gauge an interest in the Territory at the Thailand motorshow. Why not do the same here?

I'd even be supportive of the idea of a skunk-works deal. There should be a version of the road cars within the reach of spectators at all races, so the manufacturers can make some decent leverage off selling the models that are racing.


Lukeyson

[FPV GTHO]

It's not really comparable to the Thailand motor show deal. They would need a lot of extra effort to get it ready for US sales

[ebxr8240]

Keep in mind AMG are racing here and have connection to Mercedes here..
I guess they [Ford] look at it as a Ford win..
No matter what model it is..

[prydey]

in the current economic climate, its simply not viable to export to usa and make money. aussie dollar needs to be back around 0.70c, not above parity.

better to focus on other right hand drive markets.

[ebxr8240]

Yep the U.S economy will be over the cliff if nothing is done..
In this case our currency will be higher..

[Moby Vic]

Ford has looked at bringing the Falcon back here many times, but for whatever reason, the numbers never add up for it to be done profitably.

Having driven a Falcon recently, I think it's a great car, but it would compete more with Fusion than Taurus. I was a little short on legroom (but I am in most cars).

Most Americans now seem to think FWD is superior to RWD, which is sad.

[Cambo351]

I think there are two major issues to selling the Aussie Falcon in the US (aside from LHD requirements)

1. As a Ford it wouldn't bring any real extra sales, it would just cannibalise the existing market they have. So it would have to be a Lincoln. As a "premium product" the higher prices could help offset the strong Aussie dollar, but that leads to the second problem.

2. Take away the LCT & GST from the $83K sticker price for a new GT-E and you come to around $64K. Alright so what does $64K get you in the states? For example, a new Jaguar XF Supercharged is $68K plus tax & onroad costs. The XFR is $83K plus tax & onroad costs.

So a bit pricier than the GT's. But it's is a premium brand, and the sort of car the GT's would have to compete with. Let's be honest here, could the Falcon compete against the Jag XF, the BMW 5-series, the MB C-Class, Lexus whateveritis?

Just to take the example a little further. Jaguar sells 5000 XF's in North America each year. Until now all of them have been V8's, either naturally aspirated or supercharged.

Lincoln did have a car like the Falcon for a while, the LS (which as it turns out, was a platform-share with the Jag S-Type) and at it's peak the LS shifted 51'000 cars in 2000, down to only 9000 in 2006 when it was retired. At that time the top of the range V8 LS was selling for only $40K + Tax....

So, question is, would a V8 Falcon (GS?), branded as a Lincoln, sell for $50K in volume stateside?

What about a Lincoln branded GT-P or GT-E for $65K, as a direct competitor to the Jaguar XF Supercharged (and the like)?

5000 units a year would be a great boost for the Falcon's production, but that would be pretty optimistic...

The Falcon is a good car, but at current exchange rates it would struggle to compete against the true premium brands (BMW, Jaguar, Lexus, Merc) that sell for the same price in the US, as the FPV's do in Oz...

And that's before we even start with the engineering for LHD, re-styling, marketing campaigns, dealer/service network, etc...

[prydey]

well put cambo, great to see someone look at it logically and not clouded by emotion.

many people struggle with the concept that car manufacturers may actually know what they are doing.

[Jastel]

Having just spent a week at SEMA talking to car people, most had heard of the Falcon, but were surprised by the fact it had a straight 4 liter 6 and rear wheel drive and was mostly designed and built in Aust.

The V8 race is getting some promotion there was a stand for the new racetrack promoting the F1 mainly but did mention the other races. Several blokes said they watch the V8 rather than NASCAR.

The main push in USA is fuel economy now gas has hit $4 a gallon, no one mentions power it is all economy and range. The big trucks and Mustangs still have a lot of interest but they are really plugging Ecoboost engines and Focus as well.

LPG is unheard of, LiLPG even worse, CNG has a very small presence but they have hybrid size F trucks!


I like the idea but wont be holding my breath as I doubt the economics would stack up.

[Luke Plaizier]

The nay sayers drove this topic too far from the OP to get their point valid.

Having some production cars on display for the spectators to see up close would be a great idea to gauge public acceptance of a current Falcon in the US. The freight and logistics are all handled. Just stump up a bit of cash to have one or two of those spots filled by production cars instead of race cars.

Arguments as to whether there are sufficient vacant spots on the plane are more relevant than strutting exchange rates and American FWD preferences....


Lukeyson

[Bonn]

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

The nay sayers drove this topic too far from the OP to get their point valid.

Having some production cars on display for the spectators to see up close would be a great idea to gauge public acceptance of a current Falcon in the US. The freight and logistics are all handled. Just stump up a bit of cash to have one or two of those spots filled by production cars instead of race cars.

Arguments as to whether there are sufficient vacant spots on the plane are more relevant than strutting exchange rates and American FWD preferences....


Lukeyson

Our cars would appear exotic to race goers, and the FPVs would sit beautifully with an Ecoboost G6E, all offering something they can't get at home - and that has appeal. It would cost very little to ship a couple of vehicles over (3-4) and what is there to lose??

[Moby Vic]

How do you figure they would appear exotic?

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by FalconXV

do you think Ford will seize an opportunity to test the waters with the US public with some market research?

in a word, no.

Ford US have never let their aussie subordinates bring their inferior product to the eyes of their consumers. Even though selling 500 a month would be so low that Ford US wouldn't be able to provide (too niche), it'd be a valuable lifeline for Ford AU and the Falcon. of course, i don't think they WANT to save the falcon (long term).

They should have a stack of Falcons, Utes and FPVs for show and test drives

[Moby Vic]

Cue the conspiracy theorists.

[Bonn]

Originally Posted by Moby Vic

How do you figure they would appear exotic?

Just being totally different to their domestic product.
Most of the U.S. population are reportedly unaware of Australia, Australians and possibly Australian-only cars (sticking my neck out).
Case in point; i've always found Mustamgs, Camaros and Dodge Charger/Challengers interesting, but a lot of U.S. humour paints these cars (sepecially Camaros) as the Bogan car-of-choice, due to familiarity breeding contempt. Just a theory. btw, i find FGs exotic :-)

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Moby Vic

Cue the conspiracy theorists.

actually no, QUEUE the conspiracy theories as there will be lots of them lined up one after the other.......

[blk6t]

Looking forward to the US round of V8 supercars, will Ford take over a Falcon or Territory...highly doubtful.

I think FPV may possibly have a R-Spec there and a maybe mock up V8 supercar with livery, but I see no reason why Ford would send a Falcon and / or Territory all the way to the US...

Holden / Chev will obviously have there new VF SS there to show as it will be the spectacle...

So with that in mind i'm thinking Ford will showcase their US vehicle range...

[Moby Vic]

Originally Posted by Bonn

Just being totally different to their domestic product.
Most of the U.S. population are reportedly unaware of Australia, Australians and possibly Australian-only cars (sticking my neck out).
Case in point; i've always found Mustamgs, Camaros and Dodge Charger/Challengers interesting, but a lot of U.S. humour paints these cars (sepecially Camaros) as the Bogan car-of-choice, due to familiarity breeding contempt. Just a theory. btw, i find FGs exotic :-)

Plenty of RWD sedans (even with IRS) are available in the uS. They're just not sold by Ford.

A GT R-Spec might be considered exotic, or a Ute, but a Falcon XR6 or an EcoBoost Falcon would just look like another car, with older styling than the current Fusion.

[Tysonv48]

We're would the falcon sit
The US already have a family car (fusion) and sports car (mustang)
So there may not be a market, Ford Au need to test the waters first.