I blame the parents...

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by MO

If your out to stir forget it,ppl in this thread are trying to have a sensible discussion.
If on the other hand you are for real then you have one hell of a lot of learning to do along with your reality check. I would gladly go back in and do my six years again. The period I did my time was 1966 to 1972 give you a hint there was a war going on.
So either be constructive or don't post!

Vietnam war, did you go there?

[XR6TCraig]

Originally Posted by Pinkbits

And the purpose that would serve is?...................

National service would instill a bit of old fashioned discipline into every member of the community as well as to teach people like these brazen thugs that their are consequences for your actions. Thats where society has failed in the last 30 years IMO.

As it stands pretty much every kid younger than 30 was never threatened with corporal punishment as kids at school or home. The strap was taken out of school and if a parent hits their kid they are breaking the law in many states.

In some instances this leads to individuals that think that they pretty much can get away with anything with no consequences!

Like these three bright sparks and their families.

[MO]

Originally Posted by XCPWSF

Vietnam war, did you go there?

No mate,I never got the privilege to go however I was based on an ammo dump. I was one of many who made sure our blokes had every bit of ammunition they needed.

I saw young blokes go over and come back men.

[onfire]

Don't take this the wrong way Mo, you're a military Vet, you may have a completely or somewhat bias opinion on national service, they same way a core academic may have a completely different, yet completely or somewhat bias opinion and stance on fixing said problems.

[BHDOGS]

Originally Posted by svov88

But in what era?! The schools of the last 25 years are akin to holiday camps!

I think you will find the skools of the last 25 years have been anything but holiday camps due to people from mo's day not raising there kids properly who then had kids now my gf gets punched kick spat on abused and threated by kids and there parents while she does her job of teaching these mongrels and people complain they dont deserve a pay rise they should give teachers a medal for all the crap they put up with.

[MO]

Originally Posted by onfire

Don't take this the wrong way Mo, you're a military Vet, you may have a completely or somewhat bias opinion on national service, they same way a core academic may have a completely different, yet completely or somewhat bias opinion and stance on fixing said problems.

Not taken the wrong way and don't disagree. The hard part is finding the balance in the way of fixing things.

[Bucknaked]

Originally Posted by bd737

Agree entirely.

Something like 12 months with the SES, were they can actually help people and make a real difference, would be better.

SES service is a great idea. This way they directly put back into the same community that they have been taking from.

[MO]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

I think you will find the skools of the last 25 years have been anything but holiday camps due to people from mo's day not raising there kids properly who then had kids now my gf gets punched kick spat on abused and threated by kids and there parents while she does her job of teaching these mongrels and people complain they dont deserve a pay rise they should give teachers a medal for all the crap they put up with.

A bit to generalised, not all of my generation were slack in raising their kids. Just to put a bit of perspective on it, I've seen kids from families who do it real tough,i.e. parents with no trade or good education who make just enough to make ends meet,have kids who are well mannered,respectful and get the best education their parents can give them. These kids grow up to be hard workers and good contributors to their community.
On the other hand I've seen the well to do who have turned kids who expect everything and give nothing.

As for teachers they do deserve a pay rise and to get more power of control of the class back. But don't forget of late I've seen teachers who can't spell etc.
It is a vexing problem and it won't be fixed overnight but we have to start somewhere.

[Mr Brooksy]

I'd just like to add, this has turned out to be a great discussion! Even though I can only really be a part of it for 10 mins at a time, I'm really enjoying others opinions etc!

[MO]

Originally Posted by Mr Brooksy

I'd just like to add, this has turned out to be a great discussion! Even though I can only really be a part of it for 10 mins at a time, I'm really enjoying others opinions etc!

How come only ten minutes? Wont the warden give you more?

[GS608]

Originally Posted by MO

A bit to generalised, not all of my generation were slack in raising their kids. Just to put a bit of perspective on it, I've seen kids from families who do it real tough,i.e. parents with no trade or good education who make just enough to make ends meet,have kids who are well mannered,respectful and get the best education their parents can give them. These kids grow up to be hard workers and good contributors to their community.
On the other hand I've seen the well to do who have turned kids who expect everything and give nothing.

As for teachers they do deserve a pay rise and to get more power of control of the class back. But don't forget of late I've seen teachers who can't spell etc.
It is a vexing problem and it won't be fixed overnight but we have to start somewhere.

I can tell you that most the kids who have it tough and their parents actually struggle are really good kids, they know that you have to work for everything in life and are not so self centered. Where as the kids who have it easy are generally the ones who turn out selfish, and just take from the community.

I don't believe service is the right answer for all this, i guess you could call us the lost generation. With the world advancing so quickly everything has been too easy. I'm only 18 but I was brought up with a belt across my backside and was always shown right from wrong, my parents knew i would benefit from this, where as my brother wasn't brought up the same and he has suffered, he is generally a good kid but is be very selfish and disrespectful to our parents. He is only 2 years younger than me. The days where you could discipline your kid need a come back and sometimes a good kick up the butt to set you back on track is needed.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by MO

As for teachers they do deserve a pay rise and to get more power of control of the class back. But don't forget of late I've seen teachers who can't spell etc.
It is a vexing problem and it won't be fixed overnight but we have to start somewhere.

You can still score high marks in english essays with spelling and grammar mistakes, you get marked on how you present your argument, how you used evidence, used quotes etc.

My electrical teacher at school (2004-2009) has a bit of trouble speaking English as he is Croatian and has a thick acent but he really knows his stuff, qualified high voltage electrician. Also fought in 1992/1993 in the Croatian/Serbian war.

[Mr Brooksy]

Originally Posted by MO

How come only ten minutes? Wont the warden give you more?

no warden issues. Pages just takes so freaking long to load all the time.

[MO]

Dial up? There is some good affordable BB out there.

[Mr Brooksy]

Originally Posted by XR-CHIEF

I can tell you that most the kids who have it tough and their parents actually struggle are really good kids, they know that you have to work for everything in life and are not so self centered. Where as the kids who have it easy are generally the ones who turn out selfish, and just take from the community.

I don't believe service is the right answer for all this, i guess you could call us the lost generation. With the world advancing so quickly everything has been too easy. I'm only 18 but I was brought up with a belt across my backside and was always shown right from wrong, my parents knew i would benefit from this, where as my brother wasn't brought up the same and he has suffered, he is generally a good kid but is be very selfish and disrespectful to our parents. He is only 2 years younger than me. The days where you could discipline your kid need a come back and sometimes a good kick up the butt to set you back on track is needed.

I agree in part with your first paragraph. Yeah parents who struggle to make it through are often the ones who also put in the effort with their kids cause the care enough to try. The spoilt 'rich kids' is a bit of an exageration. I've worked with every financial 'class' of kids and each have stacks to deal with in their amount of issues. Rich kids often are materially spoilt and can be more self centred but most often these kids are disfunctional because their parents hold career and financial gain at the same level if not higher than spending any real time with their own kids hence designer drugs are huge issues with rich kids, as well as the belief that they can do whatever they want with no consequenses.
Middle class kids, have prob have more to deal with than most. They are usually well enough off and get most things they want, but often suffer from parents trying desparately trying to 'make it' so also don't spend enough time with their kids especially when the get older. Biggest issues they seem to have is, they believe like the rich kids that "the world owes them a living" and that they have been let down so many times before that "why bother" or "I'll do what I want, cause I don't care". These kids grow up more indifferent than self centred.
Lower class kids, usually show more street smart traits, as they had to grow up much quicker as childhood is often filled with issues that are unique to their situation. Funnily enough they seem to have had more influence and time with their parents but often the parents are not very positive role models themselves, so these kids have a more negitive lifestyle because mum and or dad are into negitive lifestyles.

Then you have the usual issues of divorced parents, drug and alcohol addictions, normal growing up issues plus the huge abuse issues that they have to go through. Plus a raft of others.

Having or not having money has brings it's own complications almost unique to each different class.

It's much more grey than black and white.

I firmly hold onto the notion that it comes down to each individual household and thier vales and what they do as a family unit. If you have spent as much time as myself and thousands of other mid to long term youth workers, you'd know that each generation, each individual circumstance and many other factors make every single young person different, and each ones needs to be treated as individuals.

It's a tough world for kids these days. There's no such thing as a 2.5 family like there was in the Boomer and even Gen X periods.

Oh and just a footnote, iGen or Gen Z is going to be much more complex than even Gen Y.

Anyway they're my thoughts agree/disagree as long as people think about these issues that's fine with me.

[Chopped]

Ratbag kids deserve what they get.

Parental skills leapt out of the window when the "know all / I'll do it my way" Baby Boomers came along, just look how they didn't want to play by the rules when they were reaching adult hood.

When they became parents they took offence to teachers or anyone discipling their child so they screamed for more rights for children (esp the bad ones!). No more cane, no more size 10 up the backside etc.

Record divorce rates as "til death do us part" didn't really apply to them, so more families were torn apart, kids living two existences..... It's been a steep slope down ever since.

I'm a GenXer and I don't think my generation has done anything to improve the situation....most of us just chuck our kids (from an early age/baby) into childcare for someone else to bring up while we earn some more money to buy the latest thingyme.... and GenY.... well......

Society is getting sick while we look out for number 1 - "me"

(dismounts from soapbox and sits in the shade)

[irlewy86]

IIRC there was an article on news.com recently that put the cost of national service at 5-6 Billion a year. Hardly an acceptable cost.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

IIRC there was an article on news.com recently that put the cost of national service at 5-6 Billion a year. Hardly an acceptable cost.

And what is the cost of the dole?

If there were 400,000 unemployed @ $15k a year that is $6B (and in Nov 09 there were 1,300,000)

If there was an extra 16c/l on the 30B litres of fuel used every year,that is $6B

Car rego in Australia is far more that $6B

It is an educational expense that actually pays back WHILE it is being spent as well as afterwards.

[Franco Cozzo]

Plus national service could get you a trade through the army, or your truck licenses etc. So it comes in handy with the skill shortage, especially if you put them into those roles.

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by flappist

And what is the cost of the dole?

If there were 400,000 unemployed @ $15k a year that is $6B (and in Nov 09 there were 1,300,000)

If there was an extra 16c/l on the 30B litres of fuel used every year,that is $6B

Car rego in Australia is far more that $6B

It is an educational expense that actually pays back WHILE it is being spent as well as afterwards.

Yes, but how militant did people become when ***** dropped the 8c subsidy. Would people really be prepared to pay a little extra to invest in our youth? I know I would.

[Falcon Coupe]

The disrespect starts at a young age and it's the parents who must take control.
My son just finished kinder and came home twice with a bruised face from an older child who is repeating due to bad attitiude. After the second incindent i approached the teacher to ask what is being done. I was told they are not permitted to touch a child or even raise thier voice for fear of upsetting the precious little darlings.

This softly approach does not work with the bad cases and i took it upon myself to tech my son how to defend himself, something that should not be necessary in kinder.
It's hard to tech my children right from wrong when so many of their peers do what ever they want.

In my opinion the lack of discipline/punishment from parents and schools is the cause of most of the violence amongst young adults in pubs and clubs, until this changes at a grass roots level i cannot see anything improving.

[BHDOGS]

I agree with you falcon coupe but i also wonder how much of the fights and crap that happens in Australia also comes form the opposite side of the coin, bullied at school treated like crap by others the schools and teachers failed to protect you then you grow up thinking that the system doesnt work and the only one whose gonna protect you is you somebody cuts in line in front of you another bully needing to be stomped somebody cuts you off in traffic another bully perhaps were just creating a generation of people who have realised that the system is crap and are taking the law into there own hands because the gov and schools and parents are to scared to.

[castellan]

It is only going to get worse.
And it's been all been created by who or what.
A moron culture like this has never been seen before in all history.
But don't worry about it because the government will help you.
They are god you know.
I am going to sue.