new v6 holden using lots of oil

[Bushbasher]

Originally Posted by turbo4me

Buying a new fg xr6 soon, what is the recommendations for running it in?

If you're running in/breaking in a new motor READ THIS.


Bushbasher

[Peter B - CV8]

Originally Posted by BennyH

I'm not disputing the fact that regular oil change is ideal, but why does the manufacturers recommend 15,000 kms intervals if what you suggest is true? Surely a bit of time and effort would be put in to reach the magic number of 15,000 km.

Easy - they just bump up the sump capacity......

[turbo4me]

Originally Posted by Bushbasher

If you're running in/breaking in a new motor READ THIS.


Bushbasher

A great read and makes a lot of sense. Thanks for that

[zilo]

Originally Posted by Bushbasher

If you're running in/breaking in a new motor READ THIS.


Bushbasher

thanks for the link...but I reckon he is full of it.

Might work for snowmobiles....

[mcnews]

My engine builders when I have had hot engines done tell me go hard from the off, just no sustained high rpm in one gear or lugging, other than that leave their workshop pulling a three geary is fine by them....

[mik]

Originally Posted by BennyH

I'm not disputing the fact that regular oil change is ideal, but why does the manufacturers recommend 15,000 kms intervals if what you suggest is true? Surely a bit of time and effort would be put in to reach the magic number of 15,000 km.

i suspect they would calculate the engine longevity doing the 15000 k services will last the life of the car with doing proper log book services, now for the next question, what is the consensus on the car life span, for some it is probably 10 years, for me being a long term type owner, as long as i can reasonably get out of the old girl, for me 7000 to 10000 k's between changes trying to make it last as long as possible.

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by Bushbasher

If you're running in/breaking in a new motor READ THIS.
Bushbasher

Thanks for that Bushbasher, that is the theory behind my post before, taking particular note that the rings must get bedded in during the early stages of the engine running. Which is why the bores are carefully honed at manufacture to allow this to happen. If they are let to glaze over say by running too gently, its too late to go back:

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

Thats one thing with my FG, the oil level stays near the full mark right until the next service. But then I helped bed in the rings by not using the cruise control during the first 1000kms, also doing a few (not too hard) accelerations uphill during the first 50kms.

Also, here I go with my thoughts:

Originally Posted by jpd80

I had a good long talk to a metalurgist about this and came away with
the same question he asked me, "What exactly are you running in?"

All the piston and ring clearances are set at the factory, they're as good
as they will ever be and the hone on the bores is only to assist seating
of compression and oil control rings which these says are all low tension
jobbies. So apart from setting the carbon seal on the top ring,
there's nothing to really "run in"...

The tolerances between the running parts like the bearing surfaces, cylinder bores and rings, also the surface finishes of these surfaces in a healthy running engine after having been run for a while, would never be able to be replicated during manufacture.

Certainly, engine parts these days are manufactured to much more accurate and tighter tolerances and better surface finishes, also the bearing etc. materials used, ensuring the mating parts match each other better when assembled, than they were years ago. Despite this, the assembled parts will still be somewhat 'tighter' than after they have been run for a while, the period this happens is the 'running in' period, where the part bearing surfaces will be 'matching' each other .

Same with the rings against the cylinder bores, they need to be 'bedded in' which machining will have no hope of doing. This can only be done when running the engine and pushing the rings against the bores by accelerating (as per bushbashers link), not too hard or for too long however, so to still look after those new bearing surfaces.

So during that period, some 'running in' is therefore still necessary, however with the modern manufacturing tolerances and surface finishes as mentioned, this may only need to be to take it easy (but still doing enough to bed in those rings), and not load up the engine too much say by driving in a too higher gear, and avoiding sustained high speed running.


During the running in process, manufacturers like Ford with the Falcon advise not to use synthetic oils too early, as they work too effectively and may prevent the rings from bedding into the cylinder bores, which the mineral oils allow.

And I also don't understand the logic of manufacturers advising not to change the oil until 15,000 kms, I changed mine the first time at 7,500kms, the condition of the oil at that time was such I was glad I did. I just wonder what an oil analysis would have showed.

[castellan]

You will not destroy a moden engine by giving it a floging !
You can buger it by pussiy footing it, that's for sure.
Cops flog the guts out of there cars from new.
Have heard of the VE 3.0L using oil.
If the rings were put in up side down it can use oil. a dud i know had 3 rings from factory in his HJ 308 up side down and this is why she use the oil you know.
If you take it easy with a new motor, you are a fool and do not know jack about what runing in is about at all.

[FNQracing]

I'll never forget the experience I had with company VS ute pool car. I was the first to drive it, had only 7kms on the clock. Anyway, I gave is an absolute flogging. It felt so good, brand new engine, as tight as a nuns you know what. I flogged it hard.

Anyway, that particular car had a reputation for "going hard" amongst the regular drivers over the other half dozen identical utes in the fleet, even the fleet manager.

Never had a balls to tell him about the flogging I gave it!

[deadfish2]

Originally Posted by BennyH

I'm not disputing the fact that regular oil change is ideal, but why does the manufacturers recommend 15,000 kms intervals if what you suggest is true? Surely a bit of time and effort would be put in to reach the magic number of 15,000 km.

its purely to keep fleet buyers happier with lower running cost. the clincher to the 15,000km interval is at no more then 1 year which a lot of companys now are advertising as 1 year service intervals, or at no more than 15,000km and some euro now 20,000 with synthetic oil.

most people seem to forget the 1 year part and just say oh look im upto 45,000km now....... gees I only had my 30,000km 2.5 years ago,

the lower the km's per year but only drive 10km's a day over 6 short trips and maybe 20km on a Saturday is what does the damage

[Rodge]

Well to those who claim its all to do with the running in, my two F6's were run in exactly the same as my SC GT-P, which is exactly how FPV prescribes it in the manual and compendium which came with the cars. Neither of the F6's used a drop but my GT-P uses a litre every 4,000 km's.

I think there's more too it than meets the eye. Like FPV with their SC motor maybe the newer sidi engines are using new super low viscosity oil ?, maybe the change to the latest low emission Dexos 2 type oils with their slightly different chemical compostion are having an effect or could it be the Holden engine is a torque-less thing that you have to belt the living death out of to get decent performance...or a combination of the above factors ?

Any way you slice and dice this thing the torquey non-oil buring Ford inline six comes out smelling like roses. (see the thread I started in the pub about the Holden motor using 20% more fuel on a back to back test with the Falcon).

[cobramania]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Well to those who claim its all to do with the running in, my two F6's were run in exactly the same as my SC GT-P, which is exactly how FPV prescribes it in the manual and compendium which came with the cars. Neither of the F6's used a drop but my GT-P uses a litre every 4,000 km's.

Rodge, slightly thinner oil being used in the GT maybe part of a factor over the F6's, but I'd bet that most or all of that litre of oil you lose is from blowby, & is coming out of the crankcase through the PCV system & into the intake/blower, not going past the rings.

The GT's have higher crankcase pressures & more blowby than the F6's purely on their cylinder capacity.
Being supercharged over turbo, makes it that much worse, forced induction over NA also makes much more blowby.
Put a dual catch can setup on your GT & see how much oil you catch.

[Gobes32]

Maybe, just maybe, the I6 is just a great engine and we are all going to miss her like hell when it's gone...............?

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

Maybe, just maybe, the I6 is just a great engine and we are all going to miss her like hell when it's gone...............?

Bullseye !!

Originally Posted by cobramania

Rodge, slightly thinner oil being used in the GT maybe part of a factor over the F6's, but I'd bet that most or all of that litre of oil you lose is from blowby, & is coming out of the crankcase through the PCV system & into the intake/blower, not going past the rings. The GT's have higher crankcase pressures & more blowby than the F6's purely on their cylinder capacity. Being supercharged over turbo, makes it that much worse, forced induction over NA also makes much more blowby.
Put a dual catch can setup on your GT & see how much oil you catch.

Thanks for that, I think you've hit the nail on the head too. The super thin 5W-20 oil FPV recommend for these SC engines doesn't help, that's for sure !

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by music189

Lucky non of you blokes own a late VW or BMW they chew through oil between services and its classed as normal.
Plenty of talk about it with the current VW problems

Guy at work has a Golf gti. He was saying that the engine is within tolerance to go through 1L/1000k's.

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Guy at work has a Golf gti. He was saying that the engine is within tolerance to go through 1L/1000k's.

"within spec" Dodgey Shonky Gearbox's
VW can stick their "within spec" oil, gearbox's and frankly anything else where the sun don't shine as far as I'm concerned.

[OLD BALDY]

Guys, When I was a boy with my 1st car at 17 (57 years ago!!!) we HAD to change the oil every 1000miles. In that time till now oil has changed an the metals in the engine components has changed. Surely it's not the guy that screws these plastic cars together that decides the oil changes!!!!?

[mcnews]

The problems with the Golf DSGs are chronic, you are brave to own any VW out of warranty, particularly a high end one, but a DSG Golf...... Run a mile!

[RANGEREST]

Originally Posted by Bushbasher

If you're running in/breaking in a new motor READ THIS.


Bushbasher

I totally agree with this, have a look at a Bugatti Veyron, Maserati or pretty much any high end sports car for that matter, and every sports motorcycle I've ever seen, even Harley V rods, all get an absolute caning on a dyno before they've even left the factory and some even before the engines have been installed into the vehicle.

[jpblue1000]

Mercedes as an example state in the owners manual I have seen an expected acceptable oil consumption of 1/4 litre per 1000Km's. This doesn't mean the engines are poorly designed or built, it means they are designed with a different philosophy to the Japanese manufacturers and obviously some Australian 6's.
The larger design tollerances of the traditional Euros proving to aide longevity etc. The Japanese manufacture to Higher tolerances to get better specific outputs per litre, and their engines may not last as long.

As for running in, on most commuter cars driving as described earlier is enough, never holding load, never idling for too long. A performance engine is a different beast, thats why they are run in on engine dynos.
The idea is to push the rings into the bores through compression. the rings are shaped to allow combustion to expand them onto the bore walls.
Of course with consumer commuters how long has the engine idled on the production line, in the ques for the transporters and in the dealers forecourt before you get to do your 'run in'
Given most of these appliances will be turned over in 3 to 5 years why stress yourselves with these thoughts. An engine using an acceptable amount of oil as designed is nothing to worry about. Thi sis of course not suggesting the GM V6 doesnt have problems like their Gen whatever V8 or the other mentioned ford engines.

JP

[Bossxr8]

There's another one in todays Carsguide. It's starting to be an epidemic. Holden have problems on their hands here.

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

There's another one in todays Carsguide. It's starting to be an epidemic. Holden have problems on their hands here.

Gotta link ?

[zilo]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

Mercedes as an example state in the owners manual I have seen an expected acceptable oil consumption of 1/4 litre per 1000Km's.

JP

My new vito has a 30,000k supposed service interval.

Holds 6 litres of oil.

Guess that means I better carry 10 litres in the cabin...cause it will use another 4 litres just to get to 30,000 and then will still need 6L to stay full.

[uniacidz]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

There's another one in todays Carsguide. It's starting to be an epidemic. Holden have problems on their hands here.

It's not only the V6 engines but also the V8

Is known of and affected persons have to do consumption tests and conclusion in affected cars is to replace the engine under warranty and cars outside warranty i have read that deals being made between owner and dealership, like 50/50

From memory, no real reason what is causing it



Sent from my HTC Aria using Tapatalk II.IV.X

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Guy at work has a Golf gti. He was saying that the engine is within tolerance to go through 1L/1000k's.

He should ask them to "Show me where it says that or I don't believe you".

[last fairlane]

Like Baldy said you had a service every 1000 miles 1600Ks usually every month or so
and doing my apprentiship on VWs we were always told to run the new cars very carefully ie the running in period for 3 months
but later on I worked in a Holden dealers which obviously sold Holdens but also BMWs and Chevs
well we were told to flog them and of course being 20 years old
we did as we were told
those 307 Prem 2 speeds had a hell of a time the 327 Camaros ditto
but best of all were the BMW 2002s they would blow the Chevy powered cars away and does anyone remember the signs on cars
"Running in please pass"
just my memories John

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

He should ask them to "Show me where it says that or I don't believe you".

VW's actions in respect of DSG, Oil Consumption and other issues, (try getting them to replace a faulty DPF filter on a diesel vehicle for instance).

[something wrong]

I have a 2011 SV6 with 50,000km and it has just had a new engine last week due to oil consumption.
It was using 1.6ltrs every 3,000km, so far only put 300km.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Gotta link ?

It was in the paper. Check the Carsguide website maybe?

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by zilo

My new vito has a 30,000k supposed service interval.

Holds 6 litres of oil.

Guess that means I better carry 10 litres in the cabin...cause it will use another 4 litres just to get to 30,000 and then will still need 6L to stay full.

from my reading of the manual;
'The Vito comes as standard with the multifunction ASSYST servicing system, which calculates flexible oil-change intervals based on use. ASSYST measures the dynamic oil level during operation and uses this to calculate the necessary top-up amount as well as the next maintenance date. The Vito only needs to go to the workshop approx. every 30,000 km or every two years'
suggesting to me your vito might need oil more often then every 30K however Mercedes expects the owner to add it...
Im just quoting the owners manuals I have read and I believe a common knowledge that mercedes cars use oil, becuase they are designed to use a bit of oil.
JP