Nice to see Ford marketing finally put the boot in!

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Fev

I know it's not worth anything but are there details on how fast each cars lap was, which car actually came first out of 161 laps and tyre wear details??

It wasnt a race Fev.........

[Fev]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

It wasnt a race Fev.........

i know that. just interesting because of how steep it does get at some points up the back.

If the cruise control was set then any time differences depends completely on torque and gearboxes and the weight and a few other variables but still..

[Jason[98.EL]]

Fev they did it at the speed limit which is at 60 kph

[Fev]

Originally Posted by Jason[98.EL]

Fev they did it at the speed limit which is at 60 kph

I know - which is why im assuming they set the cruise control and let it go.

To me it seems like a real world sort of test for every day usable performance.
The track has straights, tight corners, wide corners and hills etc etc. Just like the street.

I just thought these details would be interesting

[Lukeyson]

i normally not a fan of this advertising, but i think it needed to be said, as alot of people who arent into cars think that the SIDI motor runs on next to nothing.
I was talking to 2 older blokes last night at the servo, after looking at the GT , they were like " you should have got a holden mate, that sidi thing sounds amazing, uses hardly anyfuel whoever at holden invented that would be rich".
I know it has no relevence to my car, but i went on the explain that Holden did not invent direct injection etc.
I just hope it doesnt backfire on Ford......

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by XR8fella

i normally not a fan of this advertising, but i think it needed to be said, as alot of people who arent into cars think that the SIDI motor runs on next to nothing.
I was talking to 2 older blokes last night at the servo, after looking at the GT , they were like " you should have got a holden mate, that sidi thing sounds amazing, uses hardly anyfuel whoever at holden invented that would be rich".
I know it has no relevence to my car, but i went on the explain that Holden did not invent direct injection etc.
I just hope it doesnt backfire on Ford......

precisely what happens when you combine extensive targeting advertising with a very receptive (and frankly uninformed) supporter base. Holden have it easy for a whole host of reasons that the anti-Ford marketing mob on here seem to ignore.

My grandfather (a ford man but he did own a holden once too) asked me about the SIDI stuff when he saw it on TV. I told him it was early days but so far it wasn't looking to be all that it was cracked up to be. His response....'well ford should tell some people that because people are going to think its the best thing ever....'. Well looks like Ford is trying to do just that.

[imugli]

I think the great thing about this marketing by Ford is that Holden sprout their own marketing garbage, whereas Ford wait for someone else to prove it before they advertise it.

Don't blow your own trumpet, let someone else do it for you, then quote it.

[Rastus]

I'm glad Ford have done this. It's what I asked them to do in a message I sent them, when the Drive.com.au Bathurst test first come about. Need to get on the front foot. Yep, it's not crazy unrealistic claims, it's the results of an indepentant test.
Ford do need to do away with the gus guzzling Falcon perception. And you'd have to have been living under a rock to not have heard/seen all the Holden SIDI ads of late. This just makes people see the Falcon in the same fuel efficient light, or bettering it.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by Rastus

I'm glad Ford have done this. It's what I asked them to do in a message I sent them, when the Drive.com.au Bathurst test first come about. Need to get on the front foot. Yep, it's not crazy unrealistic claims, it's the results of an indepentant test.
Ford do need to do away with the gus guzzling Falcon perception. And you'd have to have been living under a rock to not have heard/seen all the Holden SIDI ads of late. This just makes people see the Falcon in the same fuel efficient light, or bettering it.

Yep. Me too. I sent them a message which said make use of the article. "Kick GMHolden in the nuts! They would do it to you. If you don't, do you actually want to stay in business?..."

The reality is that Commodore has been thirstier and significantly slower than Falcon since the VT-AU era. The public perception is the reverse.

[R-Design]

I wasn't sure about concept until I saw the ad. It's pure class; not too in your face, but rams the point home clearly. Hopefully they can update their current Falcon TV commercial to incorporate the information.

They've also thrown in a link to the Drive article on www.ford.com.au

This article coinciding with the launch of the Fiesta ECOnetic can only help bolster Ford's 'Green' image.

[cosmo20btt]

I think it hit home to Ford marketing when the sidi ad shows a small child in a beat up billy cart with a Ford emblem on the the front (the word ford blurred) trying to make the opposition look pathetic, it goes to show it is holden that is worried by belittling the Ford.

[Rodp]

Blech. If I was impartial, it would turn me off looking at a Ford using marketing tactics such as these. 'We don't really have anything nice to say about our product, except that it's better than the competition' - reeks of desperation to me.

Point to the comparo, point to the results and conclusions from an independent source, just don't belittle the other contenders (particularly when the comparo is lapping a race track!!!). Guaranteed that Holden marketing are already looking to produce a comparo that shows the Commodore to return better fuel economy than the Ford - your bold campaign is now shot down in flames and you've lost credibility.

[greens_tuf]

Originally Posted by Rodp

Blech. If I was impartial, it would turn me off looking at a Ford using marketing tactics such as these. 'We don't really have anything nice to say about our product, except that it's better than the competition' - reeks of desperation to me.

Point to the comparo, point to the results and conclusions from an independent source, just don't belittle the other contenders (particularly when the comparo is lapping a race track!!!). Guaranteed that Holden marketing are already looking to produce a comparo that shows the Commodore to return better fuel economy than the Ford - your bold campaign is now shot down in flames and you've lost credibility.

For everyone that is saying that this is the wrong way to advertise, I wouldn't call it an advertisement, its more like declaring a victory (for this round of the fight). The fact is that most people know Holden, Holden, Holden and think that Holden products are good or better than Ford's. So you need to try and change their perception...
Saying that the FG can average these numbers blah blah blah... will not do much for the average joe, you need to show them that it is better than what competitors are claiming. Nothing wrong with that.

The buyers need to reconsider what is better. My cousin (female) had a company car, and would always get the latest commodore, when I asked why she didn't get the Falcon/Fairmont she said "I thought Holden was good and better than Ford". Now she has a new Audi A4 and can't believe she was putting up with the Commodore for so long... Lol she said "The brakes are so good, you can actually feel it grip when you touch the pedal".

People's perceptions need to change, and this is the way to do it...

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Rodp

Point to the comparo, point to the results and conclusions from an independent source, just don't belittle the other contenders (particularly when the comparo is lapping a race track!!!). Guaranteed that Holden marketing are already looking to produce a comparo that shows the Commodore to return better fuel economy than the Ford - your bold campaign is now shot down in flames and you've lost credibility.

To be honest, the only credibility that has been shot down in flames is Holden’s.. They have stated one thing & independent tests show it to be 19% worse than what Holden is saying!! If that is not shotting down Holden’s credibility I don't know what it!! And Ford is only stating what was said in the article.. I.E. As you said "Point to the comparo, point to the results and conclusions from an independent source"!!

[Swordsman88]

Here comes the first of what i assume are numerous articles from the media comenting on the latest dynamic..... Take note of the journalist who wrote the story too....old Joshua Dowling. While i think its great there is comentary out there and its open slather Dowling cant resist wasting several paragraphs refuting an off topic comment from Burela about aurion resale values..... typical.

Originally Posted by Carpoint

Ford fuels the economy debate
words - Joshua Dowling
Blue oval takes aim at "wounded" Aurion, and "thirsty" Commodore

The fuel economy war between Ford, Holden and Toyota has spilled off the advertising arena and into boardrooms, legal departments -- and media lunches.

In the latest round of mud flinging, the boss of Ford Australia, Marin Burela, described the Toyota Aurion sedan as a "wounded animal", referring to its weak sales performance this year.

When asked about how much money Toyota was spending on advertising the facelifted Aurion during recent football grand final telecasts, Mr Burela told a table of journalists: "The Aurion is a wounded animal. If you turn around and you really look at it, I think they're in trouble.

"How long can you sustain [those sales numbers]? I mean, it's not for me to speak about a competitor, but if I was selling 800 Falcons a month I'd be worried. Could I sustain that level of production based on the volume and the cost?"

He then added: "The feedback we're getting from dealers across the country, if someone comes in to trade-in an Aurion, the dealer won't take it. There are too many, auction prices have gone down like crazy."

Aurion sales are down by 35 per cent according to data from the Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries.

Fewer than 10,000 have been sold in the first nine months of this year, compared to 22,500 Falcons (down 6 per cent) and 32,500 Commodores (down 13 per cent).

The Commodore has been posting an average of 3600 sales per month, the Falcon an average of 2500 and the Aurion an average of 1100 a month.

At a glance, the Aurion numbers seem close to those of the Mitsubishi 380 sedan in the lead-up to its demise, however the Aurion has an ace up its sleeve.

When sales of Aurion and Camry are combined (both are made on the same Melbourne production line and share their core structure) Toyota averages 2700 sales of locally made cars each month -- and that doesn't include the company's exports. Local production of a hybrid Camry from next year should also boost sales numbers.

As for Ford's comments on the Aurion's used-car values, on the contrary Aurions yield higher prices than do Falcons of similar age and condition, according to a sample of auction results researched by the Carsales Network. Data compiled by the Red Book supports this too.

Several car valuers interviewed said they were surprised by the Ford boss's comments.

"I find that hard to believe, he sounds out of touch to me," said a former Sydney Ford dealer with more than 25 years' experience in the trade. "Aurions pull more money than Falcons all day long. That's because there are far more Falcons on the road than Aurions. The new-car sales show you that. Aurions are harder to come by and so they're good property when they come up."

A check of recent auction catalogues show that two year old Aurions fetched about $16,000 to $17,000 wholesale, whereas Ford Falcons of the same age and condition fetched $13,000 to $14,000. Commodores of the same age and condition split the pair, averaging between $15,000 and $16,000.

When the Ford boss's comments were put to Toyota Australia's senior executive director of sales and marketing, David Buttner, he told the Carsales Network: "I have no comments in relation to Mr Burela's comments. It is not my practice to criticise our local industry because I believe it's important to the economy, our respective employees and our suppliers to ensure that local manufacturing is viable."

As for the Aurion production numbers, Mr Buttner said: "We build Camry and Aurion for both domestic and international markets. Our production volumes are predicated by demand in those respective markets. Aurion to date has achieved all targets that were set for it at launch, and has given Toyota for the first time a true competitor in the all-important Australian large six segment. We are confident about the ongoing viability and success of both our locally made Camry and Aurion sedans."

With sales of large cars in steady decline, the companies that build Australia's three locally-made sedans have been burning the midnight oil trying to find improvements in efficiency of their six-cylinder engines.

They've also been sharpening their tactics.

In recent months Ford has embarked on an aggressive marketing campaign, highlighting the revised fuel economy ratings for the Falcon.

Holden, meanwhile, has also been spruiking the benefits of its new direct-injection V6 engines.

But Ford's campaigns, controversially, have taken direct aim at its rivals.

One media campaign has compared the efficiency of a six-cylinder Falcon with the four-cylinder Toyota Camry, also comparing the running costs of an LPG-powered Falcon with a Toyota Corolla.

This week, Ford took out full page newspaper advertisements highlighting the results of a recent road test, in which the Ford Falcon was found to be more fuel-efficient than the Holden Commodore following a 1000km economy run around the famous Mount Panorama Bathurst circuit -- despite the Commodore having a smaller capacity engine and a lower figure on the government rating label.

Holden responded by emailing motoring journalists that it stands by its claims that the Commodore is more efficient in real world conditions.

During his frank discussion, Mr Burela also revealed some of the behind the scenes shenanigans regarding the recent ad campaigns.

Apparently Toyota was not flattered to be the centre of attention in a Ford ad about fuel economy.

"When we did the first 9.9L/100km Falcon advertisement, when we said it was more fuel efficient than a four-cylinder Camry, then we went out and said 'and by the way, our [LPG] Falcon costs you less to run than a Toyota Corolla', they [Toyota] absolutely blew it ... they could not cope with that. There was deadly silence for about a week," he said.

"And then [eventually] in came the question. And then we said to them, all we did was put the facts on the table. We didn't say anything other than what's the truth. So they went out and verified the truth and they then withdrew all their concerns and complaints very quickly."

But Toyota's approach gave Burela an idea.

"After that I had our legal team write to them [Toyota] and tell them they better go and change their web advertising which was saying they had the most efficient large car in the country. And you know what? To their credit, they didn't complain, they did it the same day. They're very honourable -- Toyota -- when it comes to that sort of stuff."

Also take note of Burela's comments RE toyota being 'very honorable'...when presented with the facts RE advertising. Implications being...Holden aren't.

[FalconXR6]

Top post swordsman.

Hate to say it but that's a good article by JD.

It's about time Ford showed some agression backed by factual data.

[Bossxr8]

Burela's like an attack dog. Love his work. Ford desperately need to go on the attack and steal back some sales.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Burela's like an attack dog. Love his work. Ford desperately need to go on the attack and steal back some sales.

I'm proud of Ford for doing it. They've used FACTS for their advert instead of fluffy BS.

[LeadFoot81]

Originally Posted by Rodp

Blech. If I was impartial, it would turn me off looking at a Ford using marketing tactics such as these. 'We don't really have anything nice to say about our product, except that it's better than the competition' - reeks of desperation to me.

Point to the comparo, point to the results and conclusions from an independent source, just don't belittle the other contenders (particularly when the comparo is lapping a race track!!!). Guaranteed that Holden marketing are already looking to produce a comparo that shows the Commodore to return better fuel economy than the Ford - your bold campaign is now shot down in flames and you've lost credibility.

I think its time Ford went for the jugular. Holden have been doing it for years, doesn't anyone remember the print for the VT that about Commodore being Australia's favourite car and featured a tiger mica VT jumping over rows of silver AU1 Fortes?

Holden have never been averse to getting the claws out, Ford are now doing the same but using facts as their ammunition.

I don't think it reeks of desperation, it reeks of confidence in their product. Being the underdog hasn't cut it for Ford in the past, nor will it now.

[R-Design]

Originally Posted by Swordsman88

Holden responded by emailing motoring journalists that it stands by its claims that the Commodore is more efficient in real world conditions.

Translation: Holden contacted their ho's & told them to get back in line.

[brownieXR8]

I think the problem is what Holden internally define as real world conditions. Maybe they should come up with a test route that includes city and highway driving and then run equivalent cars from both sides to put this to rest.

Given they will lose it will never happen

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by brownie79

I think the problem is what Holden internally define as real world conditions. Maybe they should come up with a test route that includes city and highway driving and then run equivalent cars from both sides to put this to rest.

Given they will lose it will never happen

As myself and others have noted in several threads, debating fuel burn is a very slippery slope. Its ironic that one of the most commonly discussed and apparently critical aspects of motoring, is also one of the most complex yet misunderstood by the general public. This sort of situatoin has been brewing for a while (esp. since the high fuel prices from 2007 onwards). People love to discuss the fuel burn of their cars now, comments like 'its so much better on fuel then my old car etc.', which is great. But the fact is that fuel is a very small part of the cost of car ownership and in terms of the environment, automotive is not even that big a percentage. Certainly much bigger gains can and will be found in industry.

Fact is that it is extraordinarily complex and difficutl to predict real world fuel burn, let alone design cars to achieve it while still maintaing all the other aspects of automotive design. Making modern cars that are safe, have plenty of features, are practical and have good performance while minimising fuel burn is a tough ask, and manufacturers are trying all sorts of tricks to do it. From ecoboost motors, to diesel, DSG/auto, ecu tuning and even skimping on spare tyres to save weight.

The marketability of ADR numbers has got to a point where manufacturers are being accused (and i wouldn't rule this out) of tuning cars to perform well in the rolling road ADR test, but then they don't deliver in the real world. I noticed in a recent press release Mazda made the claim that while the ADR fuel consumption of its 2.3T CX7 had not changed (in a recent update) real world fuel burn has improved something like 7%. This was a known issue with CX7s and owners did complain. So clearly some cars deliver better in the real world, despite ADR claims.

The problem for holden is perception. Running ads about going from melbourne to sydney is great, but if enough reviews come out where the SIDI engines don't provide a measurable improvement eventually people will call 'bulls**t' and then they are in trouble. The 'real world' mantra only lasts so long, if you keep underperforming then just what is this 'real world' situation. As i noted earlier, its not like it huge money (less than $5 a week) so its all perception...very little fact is involved in alot of this games-manship. There is a reason i know of holden fans that went out and bought the last of the non-AFM VE SS commodores - because they heard it didn't work so why lose the horsepower??

[Deco28]

Originally Posted by brownie79

I think the problem is what Holden internally define as real world conditions. Maybe they should come up with a test route that includes city and highway driving and then run equivalent cars from both sides to put this to rest.

Given they will lose it will never happen

You'd think one of the numerous Car websites or magazines would wise-up and do that comparo.... The fact no-one does it shows me the stupidity of Australian motor Journalists.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by brownie79

I think the problem is what Holden internally define as real world conditions. Maybe they should come up with a test route that includes city and highway driving and then run equivalent cars from both sides to put this to rest.

Given they will lose it will never happen

The Bathurst test was in many ways similar to driving around Sydney. It's a very hilly place, and you wouldn't better 60kmh average. Probably 40kmh.

GMH responses about real world conditions was a nothing, bulldust comment.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by phillyc

The Bathurst test was in many ways similar to driving around Sydney. It's a very hilly place, and you wouldn't better 60kmh average. Probably 40kmh.

GMH responses about real world conditions was a nothing, bulldust comment.

Considering I've driven around Mt Panorama and Sydney traffic (4 hours today), I don't see any similarities at all other than what you drive on is predominantly black.

Trip computer today said 29kph average and that included a 110kph jaunt on the M5.

[JPFS1]

Here's what Marin is saying internally...

Ford team,

You may have noticed a lot of noise of late from Holden about their new engine on the Commodore, which they claim to be superior to our Falcon petrol engine.


Well the team at The Age have done the tests and the results are in: Falcon still trumps Commodore in the fuel economy stakes!

Just recently The Age compared the fuel economy of a 6-speed auto G6 with that of a 6-speed auto Berlina over 1000km at the famous Bathurst track. Whilst on paper, the Berlina's fuel economy was better than the G6 (9.3L/100km vs. 10.1L/100km), the test results themselves told a very different story:


"There’s no way to sugar-coat it. The Commodore was thirstier. Despite the new direct injection technology, the Holden’s new 3.0-litre engine used 11.09L/100km of fuel…. That’s not only 19 per cent more fuel than its official claim but 10 per cent more than the Falcon (10.02L/100km)"

The link to the full article is below and I urge you to read it, share it, and tell everyone about it.

www.drive.com.au/bathurst

To spread this awesome news, we will be leveraging these results in National press, online, and via a host of dealership collateral material. A copy of the press is attached.

This is a fantastic win for Falcon and great endorsement for what we have known all along, Falcon is a winner!



Marin.

[irlewy86]

At this rate I wouldn't be suprised if this Ford's next press release.

Apart from being the hard a%$ed boss of FoA, here are some other facts about Marin Burela.

1) Marin was born with 6 testicles, all in a straight line and perfectly balanced.

2) Marin doesn't sleep, he idles.

3) Marin believes stereo's are fitted under the car. They carry hot gasses from the engine to the back.

4) Marin is rated to carry 1 tonne.

5) Marin spent some time in Italy, the Italians refer to at fondly as "The Renaissance"

6) Marin can do donuts..... on a tricycle.... while carrying a tonne.

[Kenaz]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

At this rate I wouldn't be suprised if this Ford's next press release.

Apart from being the hard a%$ed boss of FoA, here are some other facts about Marin Burela.

1) Marin was born with 6 testicles, all in a straight line and perfectly balanced.

2) Marin doesn't sleep, he idles.

3) Marin believes stereo's are fitted under the car. They carry hot gasses from the engine to the back.

4) Marin is rated to carry 1 tonne.

5) Marin spent some time in Italy, the Italians refer to at fondly as "The Renaissance"

6) Marin can do donuts..... on a tricycle.... while carrying a tonne.

LOL! Love it, especially no. 1

[R-Design]

Now Burela's talking up 2010:

Originally Posted by 20 October 2009, By BYRON MATHIOUDAKIS

Buoyed by growth, Ford predicts industry sales will sail past 900,000 units in 2009

FORD Australia says it is confident that a last-quarter upturn in new vehicle demand will push the market back above the 900,000 this year.

According to president and CEO Marin Burela, recovering confidence in an economy that has withstood the global economic downturn better than most, along with the federal government’s 50 per cent investment allowance tax break, may even drive up that final figure by a further 20,000 units.

The Ford chief added that his firm’s improving product portfolio, combined with the fuel economy gains of the Falcon and the upcoming Territory diesel, put the company in a strong position to reap the rewards of a growing market during 2010.

Speaking at the launch of the Fiesta Econetic in Melbourne last week, Mr Burela said myriad positive economic signs had vindicated his belief in the resilience of the Australian new vehicle industry.

“You have to have your mind open. The business is changing rapidly. The Australian market is changing rapidly,” he told GoAuto.

“Twelve months ago people asked me ‘where do you think the industry will be in 2009’ and I said ‘too early to say; we’ve just fallen off a cliff in 2008’.

“I then came out and said ‘we think the industry will be at 900,000’ and everybody said ‘hmm, you’re a bit optimistic aren’t you?’

“(But) we’ve been saying that all year, and we think the industry in fact will probably exceed 900,000 and may be in the range of 910,000 to 920,000.

“Some of that is clearly propped up by the investment allowance that is in there, but having said all of that, the economy in Australia is moving in the right direction. Australia has not been in a recession, and there’s a level of confidence that we are starting to see and feel in the country in general.”

Buoyed by the market share increase for both the locally made Falcon and Territory, as well as the success of the new Fiesta, Mr Burela also believes that the prevailing confidence is working for Ford at a consumer level.

“The G6 and G6E/Turbo has been such a success for us. The order take now is into January and February,” he said.

“(As far as) the market share for Falcon sedan versus Commodore sedan (is concerned), we have grown our share over the last 10 months from 28 to 36 per cent, so that is growing. And the gap between our vehicle and Commodore vehicle sales now ranges between 30 and 200 cars per month, whereas going back 12 to 18 months ago the gap was in the range of 1500.

“As we’ve started to communicate the strength of our products, the technology that is available with it, the quality of the cars, the features and contents, the fuel efficiency that is there – the Australian buyers have started to move with it.

“The average age of the Falcon buyers 18 months ago was 66 years, and now it is 45. It’s a big difference. So we’re really pleased with the progress that we’ve made.

“Territory – that’s another great story. Its segment is broken up into petrol and diesel, 50 per cent each. Now our share growth in the petrol component of the Territory’s medium SUV segment has gone from 22 to 27 per cent over the last eight months.

“But here’s the thing: now we’ve coming out and going to do the diesel. Now we are going to participate in the other half that we don’t currently participate in – diesel. So what will that do for Territory?

“(So) we’re really covering the chess board; we’ve got the balance right. And it will be an interesting year in 2010 – let me just say that.”

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...257654007C56D1

[dallasv8]

i was listening to the radio today to ant and becks and they were going on about how the new sidi holden ute is the first aussie ute to get a 5 star ancap rating.i thought the falcon utes have had that for ages,as well as the sedans?