Bob Lutz - ":Everyone will have 5 years to get their car off the road or sell it for scrap.”

[Rambunctious]

Have to wonder what governments both state and federal, not to mention local councils, will do for revenue considering the motorist is a milking cow.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by GO FURTHER

What was the precursor that took us from the horse and cart to the automobile?

It's called progress... For better or worse.

prohibition... from alcohol to oil.., remember!!

[marty351]

What do you do when a driverless car is tailgating you?

Discussion.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by GO FURTHER

Driverless cars are set to make their way on to Victorian roads next year, with the Andrews Government to introduce new laws allowing for trials of autonomous vehicles.

Cabinet yesterday ticked off on the changes to the Road Safety Act and the legislation will be tabled in Parliament this week.

News article:

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/hu...13-gzkjiq.html

Like the subject line of this thread the Age's headline is a little misleading.


From the article.....

"The guidelines state that a human driver is responsible for complying with road traffic laws when a vehicle has "conditional automation" engaged,
which is when a car automatically controls speed, steering and monitors its surrounds, but requires a driver be inside it. "

And the NTC's Guidelines state............

"These guidelines do not currently provide examples of behaviours that indicate proper
control for the following:

 Vehicles operating at high automation (Level 4) because these vehicles are not
anticipated to be commercially released on the market until 2020 and vehicles
operating at full automation (Level 5) because these vehicles are not anticipated to
be commercially released on the market for the foreseeable future.
"
http://www.ntc.gov.au/Media/Reports/...0497EB1FC).pdf

[Sox]

This is still a very very long way off.
A handful of driverless fairly conventional cars is one thing, but a superhighway network of 200kph plus pods?

Yeh nah, not in the next 20 years - 50 years maybe.

Anyone over 30-40 is safe with their old POS...

[GO FURTHER]

Originally Posted by marty351

What do you do when a driverless car is tailgating you?

Discussion.

okay, I'll bite.

I think driverless cars are programmed to keep a safe distance behind the car they are following and not deliberately tailgate you unless you are up to shenanigans.

[mr smith]

Not going to happen, flying cars were predicted in the 50s and this is the same. There will be a lot of driver aids, but there will always be a requirement for a driver to take control and more importantly take the blame in an accident.

[vdmruss]

Sometimes these futurists get ahead of themselves.



Note: The guys that drew this have a CRT monitor in the dashboard.

[CoupeKing]

No hope. Unless there is some cataclysmic event like Hillary winning in 2020 - even then it would take longer simply because the current motor vehicle infrastructure runs too deep.

Mars is where it's at.

[CyberWasp]

We are all doomed. It has begun.....(start up the music)

Skynet is watching.....waiting....

[au350hp]

We in Australia, are unique in that our towns & cities are thousands of miles apart. Whilst Melbourne & Sydney may one day, bring in some automated system, the idea of it spreading further than the city limits is absurd. Look at the cost & time involved with the NBN. Can you imagine Australia trying to implement a country wide automated transport system? That alone will see us driving our oil/petrol using cars for a long long time.

[Blue Roo]

If the Future holds for us, the Autonomous Electric Vehicle. What will the State and Federal Governments would do, for the loss of Revenue from the Speed Cameras.
Now that would be a crying shame. Wouldn't it.

[danzvtil]

POSITIONS VACANT
Software developers for Google HQ in Mountain View, California. Live in position.
No need to apply, we already have all your information.

[railtrolley]

This is an interesting subject. The video appears to be from some years ago. Could be worth revisiting to see what changes have taken place, if any. Shows the massive changes that will occur to transport in the future. Time wise, I probably won't be here to see it.

The government is going to have to make some changes on how it gets it's revenue in. Autonomous electric cars that are not personally owned means the end of excises and taxes on: vehicle sales, spare parts, fuel, oil registrations, parking tickets, driving offences, roadworthys and other inspections, and many others I haven't thought of. The private vehicle has been a huge cash cow, but so much of the revenue has to be spent on roads, that we now have the private toll roads as the gov't says it can't afford to build some of them. I would expect this to increase in the future.

Even personally owned electric vehicles means no revenue from fuel sales, so electricity charges will have to go up to cover the shortfall - as road building and maintenance will have to be funded somehow. Probably a user charge for miles travelled, and toll gantries on all current toll free roads. And the cost to build the gantries will also have to be funded. It's just a financial spiral.

The diesel bus is certainly a dead end as far a transit goes. Here in Brisbane there are many miles of dedicated bus roads to try and eliminate the all too obvious problem that they get stuck in traffic too. In trying to eliminate trams as being inefficient they ended up having to imitate the tram tracks to be efficient. So much for arguing that they would save the cost of maintaining tram lines.

Up to the 1970's, the rail network there was such that no-one in Victoria was more than 14km from a railway station - apart from the gap in the north east mountain areas. Then the great dismantling began until there is almost none of the rail network left. And the road toll in Vic was at it's highest during the 1970's. At least the trams were kept.

[aussiblue]

This is scarier: https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...ny-levandowski and https://www.livescience.com/60728-ch...ps-ai-god.html

[chrisandsharon]

.......merging with other cars on the freeway at 150mph

This bloke is from the future, or another planet.

The government thinks in 4 yr blocks, look at the mess we’re in with power as one example. Maybe this will happen but it won’t be in my lifetime.

[chrisandsharon]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

This is scarier: https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...ny-levandowski and https://www.livescience.com/60728-ch...ps-ai-god.html

Elon Musk, Steven Hawking AND the late Steve Jobs - all said robots/machines are one of the biggest threats to humanity and have warned governments to be very careful with some of the technology being played with atm.

Google shut down two computers recently as that started communicating with each other in a way that they are now trying to work out ‘what the hell just happened’ - that came from an Apple techie I was talking to in the Perth Apple shop.

A computer has also beaten the worlds best chess player. The prediction is robots will eventually run programs that will allow them endless knowledge and to be able to think faster than any human. Scary world on the horizon, especially given half these clowns playing with technology have never had a childhood/life.

I’m off to drive my performance petrol guzzler to buy a meat pie with sauce.

Soon we’ll be programmed not to eat junk food.

Humans as always will evolve with the technology but let’s hope governments listen to the warnings from the industries smartest minds.

[solarite_guy]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

This is scarier: https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...ny-levandowski and https://www.livescience.com/60728-ch...ps-ai-god.html

Another thought provoking article.

Even the Sci-Fi writers of the 30s, 40s and 50s had these concerns. Ray Bradbury was probably the most notable in this area, especially with an early short story I Robot. The "posiytonic brain" that all robots had were instilled with several fundamental laws overrode all other commands they could be given. What those laws mandated in these robotic positronic brains was an impossibility for a robot to cause any harm to a human.

I wonder is these AI experts have this concept? Even it they did, could it ever be implemented correctly, without flaws and paradoxes? Think about it. The simplest software "upgrade" will introduce all kind of "I gotch ya's".

[solarite_guy]

Originally Posted by chrisandsharon

Elon Musk, Steven Hawking AND the late Steve Jobs - all said robots/machines are one of the biggest threats to humanity and have warned governments to be very careful with some of the technology being played with atm.

Even with the best of intentions, it is very easy for flaws to be introduced into much simpler software programs and operating environments than what is being discussed here.

I tend to think of cylons and skynet when these topics come up. As I was joking with Mercury Bullet, in such a situation, I am with Number 6. Now there's a cylon. LOL.

[roddy1960]

EXTERMINATE,EXTERMINATE ..The daleks are coming too.

[Bill M]

Bob Lutz, a senior former GM exec, would be still plugged into the network so the powers are forward planning...

[Interceptor]

part of me wants to think lutz is just trying to keep himself relevant

part of me thinks sensationalistic ****clowns like him need to be censored

[Mercury Bullet]

Originally Posted by chrisandsharon

Elon Musk, Steven Hawking AND the late Steve Jobs - all said robots/machines are one of the biggest threats to humanity and have warned governments to be very careful with some of the technology being played with atm.

Google shut down two computers recently as that started communicating with each other in a way that they are now trying to work out ‘what the hell just happened’ - that came from an Apple techie I was talking to in the Perth Apple shop.

A computer has also beaten the worlds best chess player. The prediction is robots will eventually run programs that will allow them endless knowledge and to be able to think faster than any human. Scary world on the horizon, especially given half these clowns playing with technology have never had a childhood/life.

I’m off to drive my performance petrol guzzler to buy a meat pie with sauce.

Soon we’ll be programmed not to eat junk food.

Humans as always will evolve with the technology but let’s hope governments listen to the warnings from the industries smartest minds.

I've got a relative who drives autonomous trucks for Rio. Has done for a few years.
Why is he driving an autonomous truck? Because Rio don't trust them yet. On an enclosed mine site mind you.

The Vic government want these out with the public on the road?
A bit soon I think.

[Bent8]

This sort of thing is a pipe dream for big Govt.

It would require an entire rebuild of our transport infrastructure and a total change of people's mindsets before we even see the beginnings of this and in my opinion, if everything went their way, at least 50 years away.

I think we might see autonomous cars on the roads in the next 5-10 years but it will be a very small niche market, much like EV's are today.

When you consider how easy it is to hack into computer networks today, all it will take is for a few of these self-driving vehicles to be "hijacked" with fatal consequences and people will simply refuse to use them on a regular basis...

This type of scenario will probably even put an end to the autonomous car concept altogether when people eventually realise the importance of being in control of their cars, much like they should be in control of their own lives and not putting their faith in AI to dictate their fate.

Ok... I'm digressing but I think you get the idea

[ronwest]

I think our NBN is a reasonable indication of how this will go.

No chance with anything that needs bipartisan planning and execution.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by solarite_guy

Ray Bradbury was probably the most notable in this area, especially with an early short story I Robot. The "posiytonic brain" that all robots had were instilled with several fundamental laws overrode all other commands they could be given. What those laws mandated in these robotic positronic brains was an impossibility for a robot to cause any harm to a human.

I think you meant Isaac Asimov and his three laws of robotics

[solarite_guy]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

I think you meant Isaac Asimov and his three laws of robotics

You are right. Asimov wrote I Robot and introduced those laws. Been a while.

Thanks.

That was forward thinking at the time. I wonder how much of that thinking has rubbed off on the folks developing these AI systems?

[Mercury Bullet]

Originally Posted by solarite_guy

I wonder how much of that thinking has rubbed off on the folks developing these AI systems?

There is some pretty smart cookies working on this stuff.

Jim Keller for one is developing dedicated hardware for Tesla autopilot.

Still don't trust them lol.

[solarite_guy]

Originally Posted by Mercury Bullet

There is some pretty smart cookies working on this stuff.

Jim Keller for one is developing dedicated hardware for Tesla autopilot.

Still don't trust them lol.

I don't trust them either. There is some scale in place that runs from 1 to 5. IIRC according to this scale level 5 capability is needed before an autonomous vehicle can qualify to drive on it's own on public roads. I think the best ones are at level 3 now with at least one preparing for level 4.

I still won't trust them at level 5. Having been involved in software development since 1980, I know it is impossible, yes, I said impossible, to put out a 100% clean system. I don't care who claims what, the folks supporting systems in the background know better.