The Fanology debate - electro superchargers HOAX

28-03-2005, 10:20 AM

Hi guys
I'm new here, So bare with me. has anyone installed a Hiclone fuel saver in their EFI
intake? At $160.00 a pop why bother when you can make you own for $30.00 for 500mmX300mm sheet of alumium & aviation tin snips.

Heard of electric supercharger? check out my setup

Casper · 28-03-2005, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mont106

Hi guys
I'm new here, So bare with me. has anyone installed a Hiclone fuel saver in their EFI
intake? At $160.00 a pop why bother when you can make you own for $30.00 for 500mmX300mm sheet of alumium & aviation tin snips.

Heard of electric supercharger? check out my setup

Got some bad news for you, you just made a HUGE intake restriction.
Basically those small electric fans cant push enough air to run a lawnmower so what you have just done is create an intake blockage. The intake of air required is far more than that fan can handle. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

28-03-2005, 11:36 AM

Its a 24800rpm cobolt motor with model jet plane 3" ducted fan unit which together it actully push air at rate of 987cfm more then what the ford 6s can suck in 5000rpm. the vortex generator spins the air even more.

Trust me, its been running for a week and I've notice a "LLLLLOT" of differance. the constapation is completely gone when taking of from the lights, 50 meter down check the speedo & it reads 87kmh at 3500rpm oops just gone pass the speed limit, going up hill is like going down it. it now cruise 60kmh at 1050rpm compare to 1200rpm.

It now feels like I'm getting rear ended when the auto changes gears, and thats without planting the floor or over revving it

We all know what the AUll XLS ute is like at the lights next to a VS or VK, I know its shit, now they can kiss my *** 20 or 40 meters down the road. I don't need KW's I want TORQUE.

I wonder what happen if I get it dyno or put in wildcat headers & 2.25" exhuast, port the head a little pit without effect ECM, with out wasting $$$$ on chips that can only produce 10 to 15kw according to the dyno but can't notice much differance on the road.

: bye bye fancy chip owners. just kidding.

**Stav** · 28-03-2005, 11:46 AM

I believe you mate.!!! I have been reading up on ram inductions and the dyno results are very impressive. I can only assume that the 984 cfm fan is making the same effect and creating a ram effect.Top idea ..but dam I didnt know there was a fan with that type of cfm.!!Where do we get 1??

28-03-2005, 12:48 PM

check you model plan shop, ask for 3" WATT-AGE powerfan 400/6 unit without motor and WATT-AGE super 400 Cobolt motor 27T that motor is a 19000rpm 7volt but over 24000rpm under a 12v load. don't worry it can handle it.

I'm planning on having 2 of them in line to produce more air trust= "ECM thinks more air coming in I must inject more fuel, I must inject more fuel, afirmative MORE air IS coming throu !. I compute. hehehe.

you can get pcv drain pipes, "Y, U, T, L" connectors soft pipe and clamps from bunnings. get 12gage wires from JAYCAR.

Heres a sample below to give you an idea.

**Stav** · 28-03-2005, 01:01 PM

thanks mate.Just did a google search...very impressive!!! I have 90mm drain pipe in there already.Maybe ill have to convert back?

Casper · 28-03-2005, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mont106

We all know what the AUll XLS ute is like at the lights next to a VS or VK, I know its shit, now they can kiss my *** 20 or 40 meters down the road. I don't need KW's I want TORQUE.

Sorry, but a VS or VK V8 is road bait to me. Either way, I cant see these fans working that well. Even pushing that much air I doubt the difference in acceloration is dramatic.. especially with a stock set of headers which are far more of a restriction than the stock intake. Even if it does create a forced induction effect you are running a MAP based sensor designed to work on a vaccum setup. By adding forced induction and not remapping the ECU you are simply confusing it and probably running no where near its capabilities... if it works.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mont106

I wonder what happen if I get it dyno or put in wildcat headers & 2.25" exhuast, port the head a little pit without effect ECM, with out wasting $$$$ on chips that can only produce 10 to 15kw according to the dyno but can't notice much differance on the road.

: bye bye fancy chip owners. just kidding.

I'm one of those "fancy chip owners" and only got about 6rwkw peak power increase. Of course, the overall spread and shape of the power curve was so different that it was far more than a simple peak 6rwkw could ever show.

Dyno numbers dont tell much of a story about real world drivability, at best its an indication. Give the ute a run down the 1/4, let me know the time it runs. Then we'll see whos saying byebye

**Stav** · 28-03-2005, 02:07 PM

I too am sceptical Casper.And as a sceptic I am going to try it.Heck if someone told me chewing gum in my intake gave me more ,I would try it.

RED_EL_XR8 · 29-03-2005, 12:13 AM

This is intriging to say the least. Th fan shown in the photos wouldn't draw 11A withouth the insulation dripping from the wires.

As stated previously a supercharger is effectively a compressor not a fan. An axial fan will not work effectively into a high static head, they are typically utilised to discharge into open ducts or into free air.

A competitor E-RAM discounts axial fans as fraud, junk and conravention of their patents. A bit more research an my personal opinion is that these are also junk & fraud, just much higher priced junk. They run a much better designed fan but even at its 57Amp draw it is unlikely to be able to produce much comression in the intake. Thes guys propose axial-flow fans I guess thats there marketing hype for a fan blade with a better design and fan curve. But its still a fan.

So a modern Alternator at around 110/120A, minus about 45A for ECU AUTO BEM etc, not going to be practical. But wait we can plonk 2 more batteries in the boot, OK how do we charge these? not whilst in motion obviously, And we have just added at least $400 to the price for wiring relays, battery mounts batteries etc.

These next ones Thomas Knight lokk like the may have a motor impeller combination capable of actually achieving some boost. A compressor at last. But all the problems of how to drive them just compound, more Amps etc.

So without getting the sliderule out its not looking good, an average road going supercharger is going to sap about 10Kw of energy to do its job allowing the engine to produce even more Kw. so 10Kw/12V = about 834 Amps.
Axial fans I dont think so, and a boot full of traction batteries from a nearby forklift isn't going to do wonders for your quarter times either.

I'm not going to suggest bunkum, but frankly until I can see some real life independant testing and proving of results then I cant see any reason for anyone to be parting with the folding stuff. (filed with energy polarisors, magnetic fuel ionisors, etc in the awaiting proof cabinet.)

Sox · 28-03-2005, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by useless

I agree FI is the best way to get the ford moving at its best.

I have yet to see anyone who has done a cam job and seemed completely wrapped by it.Comments which Ive noticed are .."feels the same but better top end" or "Its really great but...."....or "I cant wait for my chip" I wonder if any cam has lived up to expectations?

I was never unhappy with my DEV5, it was excellent.

It transformed the car from a docile truck to a low 14sec sports car.
It actually exceeded my expectations.

Rick.

28-03-2005, 02:43 PM

if I floored it and do 178kmh in 400metre on a isolated country road, I don't know what that is in 1/4 mile or mph. I'll take some slicks with me next time while the puter is still learning me driving habits.

I notice now after 9 days its cruising 60kmh at 900-950rpm, shit thats idle speed. notice a different tone to the exhurst note. its beutiful!!! it revs less at the same speed. I'll fill up next time with premium and see how much Distance To Empty figure I'll make.

Use your head and money wisely gents. study, study, research, research, plan, plan, then dive in.

Casper · 28-03-2005, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mont106

if I floored it and do 178kmh in 400metre on a isolated country road, I don't know what that is in 1/4 mile or mph.

Sorry, your saying your doing 178kph (110mph) at the end of a standing 400m on this road?

Casper · 28-03-2005, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mont106

Use your head and money wisely gents. study, study, research, research, plan, plan, then dive in.

As Was said. Think first and dont waste your money. A simple bit of maths tells us that it is a restriction and a hazard to the intake.
If it worked so well, I'm sure there would be someone on the forums prior to this with results. There isnt. They dont work. "study, study, research, research".. wise words indeed.

28-03-2005, 02:58 PM

Yes, yes, but it pings, not sure if its 400metre. what I did was mark the spot then drive until I reach 400m well maybe 415-420m

Casper · 28-03-2005, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mont106

Yes, yes, but it pings, not sure if its 400metre. what I did was mark the spot then drive until I reach 400m well maybe 415-420m

ok, you just crossed into never never land I'm afraid. Even at 450meters there is no way a stock engine (be it I6 or V8) AU is ever going to get to 110mph. To do so you are looking at close to 400rwhp. At 110mph you would be running a 12 second pass on the 1/4. I suggest you run it at the track..slicks or not...and get a real time. I think you will find it is closer to a mid to high 15 second pass at about 145kph (90mph).
I'm not trying to be smart but your numbers are way off.
My XR6 has anywhere from 135 - 150rwkw (181 - 201rwhp) depending on the dyno at the time and runs a 15.02 1/4 mile at 93.5mph (150kph). To get it into the 12's and at a speed of 110mph I'd need to effectivly double the output.

28-03-2005, 03:41 PM

you could be right the new clocks don't include decimal then metre counter like the old ones. then again, its how you press the accelarator, use up all the torque and KWs at the bottom without revving the shit out of the motor. find the spot where your power comes in then use it. you'll feel and know when.
I'll test it out one day on the tracks. that was a one off test I did on that road until it pings. No more until headers/exhurst/cam/mild porting/ or a unichip upgrade. I just stick to eccelarate up to road speed limit.

check this site out http://www.electricsupercharger.com/

28-03-2005, 04:08 PM

Think out side the square... I could do alot with $1150- $1350 dollars which I would of spend on a unichip on other things to inprove my engine performance. maybe spend it on Jim Mock DEV kit 1

Sourbastard · 28-03-2005, 04:10 PM

First, a fan with an 80mm diameter, running at 19,500rpm wont push past about 300cfm maximum flow(287.7cfm to be exact). 900cfm is a fantasy.

Second, once it reaches maximum static head pressure, the air will simply flow back past the fan, its not a compressor, back preassure will bleed backwards past it.

Once the head and manifold reach peak vacuum, which will draw more then 300cfm, your fan will over rev and eventually stuff up, worse still, it will be pulled along by vacuum, rather then push, and works as a restriction and will bleed energy from the engine.

Casper · 28-03-2005, 04:20 PM

OK, as most people on the forums and they will tell you I am tolerant of people who don’t know but I can’t let this slide so lets go through it 1 by 1.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mont106

Depends on engine type.

certainly does, but generally all combustion engines work on the same principle. Fuel/air in, bang, gasses out. Bang makes the car go. How big a bang, along with multiple other factors determine how fast the car goes. Forced induction basically makes a bigger bang by forcing in more fuel/air for each bang.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mont106

Just say you build your self a twin inline fan system claims{5-10hp},

Claimed is the OPTIMUM word here, I still don’t believe it and have discussed it with many others who also don’t believe it. Some of whom have experimented with it before. The general fault with it is that a fan is just that, it blows air. A supercharger and turbo are more like a compressor. Quite simply, the pressure created by such a small fan is not enough to overcome the massive blockage to the intake. At the very best all it can do is push enough air to overcome the blockage…and that’s unlikely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mont106

port the heads just a little 5hp or more,

Porting the headsshould give far more than 5hp if done correctly. I would be expecting closer to 10hp at the rear wheels and even more if done right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mont106

custom build your airbox using T snorkle maybe 1-2hp,

I’ll agree with that, intake without exhaust would make next to no difference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mont106

make a couple of Hiclone fuel saver out of sheet metal maybe 5-15hp, wildcat headers maybe 3-7hp,

Once again, doubtful. Something like a helix spacer would be more effective. Same swirl idea but no restriction.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mont106

clone 2.25 XR6 exhurst system-1 resonator,1 straight throu fiberglass pact muffler maybe 2-4hp.

Standard XR6 exhaust is identical to a Forte or your ute, no different. Far better to get a good set of headers and a 2.5” cat back exhaust.. mine gave me about 26-30rwhp with some minor intake mods. That alone is the best thing you can do to your car.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mont106

add the lowest value to be more realistic= 21hp. 43hp if you add the highest value or even more. with sandard chip.

Seriously, get the right gear and a minor intake mod, decent exhaust, head port and chip will give you an easy 60rwhp without resorting to electic fans etc which are truly just a gimmick.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mont106

Just imagine you got a unichip installed and tuned to the spec you have above. you're looking at around 30-60% if tuned right maybe even more.

the above mods “may” give you about 30-40%... if done right. Nothing more. Certainly no where near 60%. To give you an idea, a 60% power increase on a standard AU I6 will give you around 250kw…that’s equal to a T3 5.6l V8 from the factory.
There are full blown turbo I6 AU’s out there not making that much. You certainly wont come close with the mods listed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mont106

Who knows.

Many people do, there are people on this site that have been modifying cars for decades and when you add all that knowledge together and share it around, people work it out pretty quick.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mont106

then again, its how you press the accelarator, use up all the torque and KWs at the bottom without revving the shit out of the motor.

I don’t even know how to answer this. It really makes no sense at all. Certainly now for ¼ mile discussions. Can you please explain what you mean?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mont106

find the spot where your power comes in then use it. you'll feel and know when.

LOL, yes, it’s not that hard. Of course there is a LOT more to it than that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mont106

I'll test it out one day on the tracks. that was a one off test I did on that road until it pings. No more until headers/exhurst/cam/mild porting/ or a unichip upgrade. I just stick to accelarate up to road speed limit.

Please do yourself a favour. Take your car to the dyno and to the track. Run it as is. Then you have a benchmark for future mods. Speculation is not helping. There are a lot of people on this site that have done every conceivable mod you can think of. They know their stuff. Take the opportunity (as I did) to learn from them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mont106

Think out side the square... I could do alot with $1150- $1350 dollars which I would of spend on a unichip on other things to inprove my engine performance. maybe spend it on Jim Mock DEV kit 1

I have a JMM dev1, I also have a Chiptorque chip. I know what they can do and how they work on a car. You will also need more than $1350.

EFFalcon · 28-03-2005, 04:27 PM

ignoring all this BS.
how can u change what RPM ur car cruises at?

Quote:

60kmh at 1050rpm compare to 1200rpm.
I notice now after 9 days its cruising 60kmh at 900-950rpm, shit thats idle speed.

explain the physics behind that and then i might start beleiving you.

**Stav** · 28-03-2005, 04:59 PM

I think hes talking about this. http://www.esuperchargers.com/

**Uncle_Ken** · 28-03-2005, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by useless

I think hes talking about this. http://www.esuperchargers.com/

So Useless, you reckon this is a waste of $$ as a concept without any exhaust work done to the car?

Uncle_Ken

I don't understand half of this but it’s a nice way to see of Monday afternoon.

PS. I think this forum is very great to argue on facts rather than just go off at someone because you think they are wrong.

:

Casper · 28-03-2005, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle_Ken

So Useless, you reckon this is a waste of $$ as a concept without any exhaust work done to the car?

Uncle_Ken

I don't understand half of this but it’s a nice way to see of Monday afternoon.

PS. I think this forum is very great to argue on facts rather than just go off at someone because you think they are wrong.

:

I'm not sure why your aiming that at Useless, he has not gone off at the guy at all. In fact no one has.
I have been the one that has been the harshest critic and I dont think I have gone off at all. I simply took each of his points and commented on them. I will stand by the comments too. These things dont work. I simply stated this and stated why.

xr8ute · 28-03-2005, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EFFalcon

how can u change what RPM ur car cruises at?

maybe a strong tailwind, or it was rolling downhil...lol

RED_EL_XR8 · 28-03-2005, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EFFalcon

how can u change what RPM ur car cruises at?.

The gear lever seems to work! Rear end ratio change might too.

Casper · 28-03-2005, 05:10 PM

Go for it Stav but think about what happens to a plastic bladed fan when it explodes on the intake side of the filter. Where do all the bits go?
They dont work, they cannot possibly push enough air, they are a restriction and when they do go bang all the bits end up in your manifold and engine.

No thanks.

**Stav** · 28-03-2005, 05:12 PM

I agree!!! Also how many amps this thing draws would not be good news. If screw or component came loose it will end up in my inlet valve and back to Mr Ford at GReenacre for a new engine.If this guy is doing the quarter mile in the time he said I would have to say he is driving a ufo. Monty ...you are welcome here mate but unless we are running a 6 litre engine mate I doubt your time.

28-03-2005, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by useless

I agree!!! Also how many amps this thing draws would not be good news. If screw or component came loose it will end up in my inlet valve and back to Mr Ford at GReenacre for a new engine.If this guy is doing the quarter mile in the time he said I would have to say he is driving a ufo. Monty ...you are welcome here mate but unless we are running a 6 litre engine mate I doubt your time.

*11 amps= 132 watts= 24500rpm under a 12 volt load. *theres a non restrictive wire mash behind the fan. *my mistake, it could have been 420m or more. I don't have a metre ruler to measure exactly the dis. who knows, it might be further then that. I just judge the dis visually. but who cares, it flies like an UFO. It would of taken an extra 100-150m to get to 178kmh without my setup.

Casper · 28-03-2005, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mont106

420m or more. I don't have a metre ruler to measure exactly the dis. who knows, it might be further then that. I just judge the dis visually. but who cares, it flies like an UFO. It would of taken an extra 100-150m to get to 178kmh without my setup.

Is the ute a V8 or I6?
I know that my XR6 would take quite a bit more than 500m to get to 180kph, closer to 700 or 800 at a guess.

28-03-2005, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casper

Is the ute a V8 or I6?
I know that my XR6 would take quite a bit more than 500m to get to 180kph, closer to 700 or 800 at a guess.

AUll XLS I6 with TourerTop canopy, I get a lot of down force with it, its scary when going over a crest or hill, I can feel my nuts in my stomach and my heart in my throat. hehehe.

I guess around 500 or more cause the maker did'nt look that far. distance can be decieving at times.

Tell you one thing, once going over a 1km hill at 100kmh at2300-2500rpm in the speed limit, speedo and rpm just jumps while still holding the same gear{3rd} the blooding thing pulls to the left like it wants to go offroading, foot of the pedal to slow it down from 125kmh to 100ks & thats was more like a second or two.