Do we really have more "choice"?

[Crazy Dazz]

It annoys me when people applaud the so-called "increased choice' we supposedly have as a result of successive governments selling Australian workers down the river.

Sure, if you want a juice-box, made in some 3rd world country, the number of available models is impressive. I don't think we've ever before in my lifetime had so many different brands, and even within the same company there are multiple entries. But is that really "choice"?

Sure, if you're looking for a juice-box, and the number of usb points is a big issue. But looking for such a car for my daughter has convinced me that they might as well all be made in the same factory, and simply come with different badges that you can mix and match.

I'm reminded of Ford's famous quip "any colour you want, as along as its black."

Similarly when Ford promises "20 cars by 2020" and "a car for every lifestyle."
So ok, I'd like a large powerful RWD Sedan or wagon!
No sorry, but come back next year and we'll have yet another FWD 4 cylinder for you to try.

At least Ford has retained some self-respect by bringing in the Mustang. Absolute kudos to them for that.
But gees, that still leaves 19 different ways to stick a 4 cylinder into a fwd juice-box.

[drz250]

Sounds like you want a Ford Falcon sedan or maybe a Holden Commodore sportswagon. They are still being made for a little while and are readily available brand new.

[Express]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Sure, if you want a juice-box, made in some 3rd world country, the number of available models is impressive. I don't think we've ever before in my lifetime had so many different brands, and even within the same company there are multiple entries. But is that really "choice"?

Sure, if you're looking for a juice-box, and the number of usb points is a big issue. But looking for such a car for my daughter has convinced me that they might as well all be made in the same factory, and simply come with different badges that you can mix and match.


So ok, I'd like a large powerful RWD Sedan or wagon!
No sorry, but come back next year and we'll have yet another FWD 4 cylinder for you to try.

It appears to me it’s just a matter of the manufacturers knowing what the majority of customers want and they’re all competing for those dollars.

It makes good business sense to me.

You sound like you’re in the minority and the minority aren’t ever well catered for and to make money from it the manufacturer’s that are interested will charge you premium dollar for something out of the norm.

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by Express

It appears to me it’s just a matter of the manufacturers knowing what the majority of customers want and they’re all competing for those dollars.

we had a group of yr 9/10 girls tour the test lab last week. When I asked them what the best features of their parents' cars were they said colour, seats, touch screen.....

that's the market car companies are catering for.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by simon varley

we had a group of yr 9/10 girls tour the test lab last week. When I asked them what the best features of their parents' cars were they said colour, seats, touch screen.....

that's the market car companies are catering for.

But to be fair, when I was in school growing up everyone got excited when my friends dad new car had electric windows.

[Express]

Originally Posted by simon varley

we had a group of yr 9/10 girls tour the test lab last week. When I asked them what the best features of their parents' cars were they said colour, seats, touch screen.....

that's the market car companies are catering for.

Are you saying the car manufacturers are designing cars to suit the tastes of yr 9/10 school girls?

I guess you mean their parents are like most purchasers who are only really interested in the value versus the A to B comfort aspects of the vehicles they drive unlike enthusiasts who live and breathe the dynamics of the car.

The manufacturers research the mindset of their customers and make their money catering to the majority, that’s what makes the manufacturer smarter than the enthusiast.

Leave an enthusiast to design a car and the cost and main focus of the vehicle would severely limit its market.

Of course there are manufacturers that also focus on other levels and that is where in most cases the consumer really does get to pay for the pleasure.

For example if you are a member of AMG’s owner’s forum you will be aware Mercedes-Benz often survey the owners to find what they want in their AMG cars.

Last year it was the type of interiors and not so long ago they were asking if the owners would prefer AMG to start manufacturing the entire range in AWD similar to Audi.

I’ve no doubt the cheaper Asian brands know exactly where their customers like the USB port to be located.

Like it or not mass production is all about knowing your customer and bugger the few.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by simon varley

we had a group of yr 9/10 girls tour the test lab last week. When I asked them what the best features of their parents' cars were they said colour, seats, touch screen.....

that's the market car companies are catering for.

Lucky 10 year old girls don't buy new cars.

Most adults want affordability, safety and reliability to go along with the modern technology in their cars.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by simon varley

we had a group of yr 9/10 girls tour the test lab last week. When I asked them what the best features of their parents' cars were they said colour, seats, touch screen.....

that's the market car companies are catering for.

I noticed this one after I could no longer "edit" my comment...

Very true. As I have said before, when we bought the G6E, I asked to see under the bonnet, and the salesman said that I was the first person in maybe three months who had even asked to look under there...most people only ask "technical" questions like auto/manual, how many cylinders (important for Queensland with our graduated rego), and servicing costs. And that was it. Maybe "petrol or diesel?" as well.
The staggeringly large majority of buyers don't honestly care anymore which end is doing the driving.

[Qwerty321]

The reason why we don't have much choice in the near future is cause many of the cars offered are designed to just be manufactured in LHD. However the case for designing future generations to be built in both LHD and RHD is rapidly becoming more feasible. Many emerging markets like Malaysia, India, much of South East Asia and even South Africa drive on the left. Meaning as each year goes by, these markets get bigger the people get richer and marketing these cars in RHD to them has more and more potential. Also, GM and Ford will have till now tried to prop up Australian manufacturing, by making the Falcon and Commodore/Cruze they're only family sedan offerings (lets forget the Malibu - it was ****) in Oceania. Once local manufacturing closes there is no longer a need to protect these factories and so there is a case from bringing the big LHD sellers here in RHD form.

We probably wont see Caddilacs, Chevy SSes, Ford Tauruses, Fusions etc. being offered by Ford or GM/Holden in the next generation that replaces the aussie built series, but it's only inevitable that with growing demand in RHD markets and no longer needing to protect Elizabeth and Broadmeadows, that future generations get built in RHD too, and end up getting sent here for us to buy. We don't have much choice now, but we will later on.

[Giant Cranium]

Does it need to be a ford. You can get a large rwd v8 in the form of a e63. Competitive at 300k.

[Brazen]

But to answer the OPs question i think the type of car people are buying is getting progressively worse.

Look at how good something was like in the late 90s. Very popular were the V6 Magnas and they were just terrific cars and a top5 seller. Compare to the same level of popularity now from the same brand 20 years later - things like Lancers and Tritons. We have definitely gone backwards.

[Spammy]

Car companies build the cars that are most profictable and sell the most. Large RWD domestic sedans have gone the way of fax machines and VHS players.

[Vesper Martini]

I keep saying it, but after the cheap Ford & Holden's have gone the next resort is shopping at Chrysler Jeep Dealership.
Otherwise you have to step up to the Euros. or perhaps look at the 2nd hand market for them.
point being there will still be cars available ..for now

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

It annoys me when people applaud the so-called "increased choice' we supposedly have as a result of successive governments selling Australian workers down the river.

Sure, if you want a juice-box, made in some 3rd world country, the number of available models is impressive. I don't think we've ever before in my lifetime had so many different brands, and even within the same company there are multiple entries. But is that really "choice"?

Sure, if you're looking for a juice-box, and the number of usb points is a big issue. But looking for such a car for my daughter has convinced me that they might as well all be made in the same factory, and simply come with different badges that you can mix and match.

I'm reminded of Ford's famous quip "any colour you want, as along as its black."

Similarly when Ford promises "20 cars by 2020" and "a car for every lifestyle."
So ok, I'd like a large powerful RWD Sedan or wagon!
No sorry, but come back next year and we'll have yet another FWD 4 cylinder for you to try.

At least Ford has retained some self-respect by bringing in the Mustang. Absolute kudos to them for that.
But gees, that still leaves 19 different ways to stick a 4 cylinder into a fwd juice-box.

LOL what a rant.

Yes we have a large choice and thankfully not stuck between two brands with a range that is too similar and quality that is questionable at best.

In the 21st century the 4 cylinders are producing more power than 6's and some 8's were 10 - 15 years back.
The cars are safer than they have ever been and if you look past the marketing (of which many obviously cannot) you can see the technology (technology != gadgets) these so called juice boxes are far better than many large cars were 20 years back.

It all just depends on what you want the car for.

As for the industries closing here, we need to be smarter about how we work. Simply put we're too expensive to do business here. It is not just manufacturing either.

[Mercury Bullet]

Originally Posted by Wretched

LOL what a rant.



In the 21st century the 4 cylinders are producing more power than 6's and some 8's were 10 - 15 years back.

Yep and they're blowing up. You only need to look at what's happening with the small capacity diesels, they don't last.

if you look past the marketing (of which many obviously cannot) you can see the technology (technology != gadgets) these so called juice boxes are far better than many large cars were 20 years back.

Comparing brand new with something 20 years old. Let's have a look at these cars in twenty years and then compare with an AU.

It all just depends on what you want the car for.

True

As for the industries closing here, we need to be smarter about how we work. Simply put we're too expensive to do business here. It is not just manufacturing either.

Red Herring.
How high is the USD at the moment?

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Mercury Bullet

Yep and they're blowing up. You only need to look at what's happening with the small capacity diesels, they don't last.

Comparing brand new with something 20 years old. Let's have a look at these cars in twenty years and then compare with an AU.

True

Red Herring.
How high is the USD at the moment?

Proof of all these 4cylinders going bang? Or just trolling?
We've got 3 VW, 2 Ford and a mazda in our family all except one are 4 cylinder (one is a 5 cylinder), all done over 120k km (the 5 cylinder nearing 190k km) and the only issue has been, the DSG in one of the VW and the shoddy workmanship of the service centre with the ST.
When should we expect them to go bang? Not seen many if any on the side of the roads either. With the high use of 4 cylinder cars across all manufacturers I expect then our roads to be clogged with broken down cars.

AU is the benchmark of quality is it? Interesting. BA failed straight away and it didn't need 20 years if that's the case.

Currency fluctuations don't always determine if a country is viable.
A whole host of factors are included, wages, government policy, red tape, location, etc.

[JAJH]

Originally Posted by Wretched

As for the industries closing here, we need to be smarter about how we work. Simply put we're too expensive to do business here. It is not just manufacturing either.

We enjoy a high standard of living in this country and high wages that go with it. It's virtually impossible to compete with overseas suppliers whose costs and labour are a fraction of ours. The problem is we import so much product which in turn puts pressure on local businesses to compete. And when the local industry can't compete, they eventual close and we end up with more imported crap. We will get to the stage in this country where there will be almost no manufacturing and big business will be fully owned by overseas interests. Long term that's not going to be of any benefit to us.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by JAJH

We enjoy a high standard of living in this country and high wages that go with it. It's virtually impossible to compete with overseas suppliers whose costs and labour are a fraction of ours. The problem is we import so much product which in turn puts pressure on local businesses to compete. And when the local industry can't compete, they eventual close and we end up with more imported crap. We will get to the stage in this country where there will be almost no manufacturing and big business will be fully owned by overseas interests. Long term that's not going to be of any benefit to us.

Agreed, and it may be that we have to change our way of doing business, instead of high volume manufacturing for example, we may need to look at niche manufacturing like our Geelong team doing wonders with carbon fibre.
There are a number of things that we can and should do but we need to be willing as a nation to step up and do what is needed to adapt to the change.

[JAJH]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Agreed, and it may be that we have to change our way of doing business, instead of high volume manufacturing for example, we may need to look at niche manufacturing like our Geelong team doing wonders with carbon fibre.
There are a number of things that we can and should do but we need to be willing as a nation to step up and do what is needed to adapt to the change.

Yes, that could work, too. But, I for one don't want my standard of living or wages to drop just so the country can compete with overseas markets. Maybe the better idea would be we stop importing so much, concentrate on our own manufacturing base and push the "Aussie made" banner. I wouldn't have a problem spending more on every day items knowing they are made here by Aussies and owned by Aussies.

[DoubleTrouble]

Originally Posted by JAJH

Yes, that could work, too. But, I for one don't want my standard of living or wages to drop just so the country can compete with overseas markets. Maybe the better idea would be we stop importing so much, concentrate on our own manufacturing base and push the "Aussie made" banner. I wouldn't have a problem spending more on every day items knowing they are made here by Aussies and owned by Aussies.

Originally Posted by JAJH

The problem is more than just cosmetic or technological features when the 2 biggest manufacturers in this country close their doors but we still allow a multitude of overseas manufacturers to import their cars, all at the expense of our industries and workforce. There is something very fundamentally wrong with that picture.

Originally Posted by JAJH

We enjoy a high standard of living in this country and high wages that go with it. It's virtually impossible to compete with overseas suppliers whose costs and labour are a fraction of ours. The problem is we import so much product which in turn puts pressure on local businesses to compete. And when the local industry can't compete, they eventual close and we end up with more imported crap. We will get to the stage in this country where there will be almost no manufacturing and big business will be fully owned by overseas interests. Long term that's not going to be of any benefit to us.

Well you cant have your cake & eat it.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by JAJH

Yes, that could work, too. But, I for one don't want my standard of living or wages to drop just so the country can compete with overseas markets. Maybe the better idea would be we stop importing so much, concentrate on our own manufacturing base and push the "Aussie made" banner. I wouldn't have a problem spending more on every day items knowing they are made here by Aussies and owned by Aussies.

*shudder* no thank you. It happened before and look at the mediocrity that came out of the two car makers when they dominated the market.

I buy AU made where I can but having to pay a premium for something that is just as good not better is really testing the relationship.

We do have some very good products on offer here, esp clothing, some furniture and food.

[JAJH]

The problem is more than just cosmetic or technological features when the 2 biggest manufacturers in this country close their doors but we still allow a multitude of overseas manufacturers to import their cars, all at the expense of our industries and workforce. There is something very fundamentally wrong with that picture.

[Trump]

Originally Posted by JAJH

The problem is more than just cosmetic or technological features when the 2 biggest manufacturers in this country close their doors but we still allow a multitude of overseas manufacturers to import their cars, all at the expense of our industries and workforce. There is something very fundamentally wrong with that picture.

This post is 100% spot on. People are severely underestimating the consequences of Ford, Toyota and Holden shutting up shop here.

Oh and here is the car of the future:

[Qwerty321]

Originally Posted by JAJH

The problem is more than just cosmetic or technological features when the 2 biggest manufacturers in this country close their doors but we still allow a multitude of overseas manufacturers to import their cars, all at the expense of our industries and workforce. There is something very fundamentally wrong with that picture.

Eh, New Zealand lots its auto industry back in the early 90s. It didn't hurt us thaaat much.

As far as choice goes. We've still got the Chrysler 300 series. They're not too much costlier either.

[OzriderXR8]

We do have more choice, I agree, each manufacturer makes an almost exact copy of their competitors car in each segment but we have so many more manufacturers offering cheaper and in most cases better vehicles.

We recently drove to Qld and took the wife's Elantra instead of the Falcon, yes it was cheaper to run, but it was almost as roomy inside, we could fit more in the boot and it has pretty much every safety feature under the sun. And I never thought twice about reliability.

If you want a big, powerful rear wheel drive then be prepared to pay a premium for one, just like we had to years ago if you wanted a imported high performance fuel injected car with automatic everything.

[simon varley]

yr 9/10 are only a few years away from wanting cars of their own and they have already decided what's important to them.

[BENT_8]

Yeah, the choices are just not worth choosing from.

[Spammy]

The Australian car buyer has the choice to buy a new Falcon or something else. Last month they bought a lot more of something else.

[drz250]

Originally Posted by Spammy

The Australian car buyer has the choice to buy a new Falcon or something else. Last month they bought a lot more of something else.

Well for those living in suburbia, "something else" is a great option but many of us choose to travel rougher conditions or perhaps simply cover large distances highway driving. The Falcon is ideal for the driving conditions that exist outside of "the big smoke". The only problem is that most city slickers never leave "the big smoke" so they have no reason to purchase such a vehicle. It makes more sense to drive around in a vehicle with a milk carton for an engine because it saves them money at the bowser.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by drz250

Well for those living in suburbia, "something else" is a great option but many of us choose to travel rougher conditions or perhaps simply cover large distances highway driving. The Falcon is ideal for the driving conditions that exist outside of "the big smoke". The only problem is that most city slickers never leave "the big smoke" so they have no reason to purchase such a vehicle. It makes more sense to drive around in a vehicle with a milk carton for an engine because it saves them money at the bowser.

So the Falcon ecoBoost is not suitable for long distance driving? You know, with more power than an AU Falcon? Only a handful less than the 6 cylinder offered from BA onwards of which is double the size?