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15-06-2013, 05:58 AM | #1 | ||
If it ain't broke........
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Location: Sunshine Coast Qld
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15-06-2013, 06:50 AM | #2 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,404
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Now Ford Aus. is done & dusted, it is amazing how the media have now put all their negative attention towards Holden. Dark days ahead for aussie manufacturing unfortunately!
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15-06-2013, 06:59 AM | #3 | ||
Maximum Derek
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Sale, Victoria
Posts: 1,768
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Ehh... another JD article
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15-06-2013, 07:00 AM | #4 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,198
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Have they started on Toyota yet?
Last edited by flappist; 15-06-2013 at 09:29 AM. Reason: spelling |
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15-06-2013, 02:23 PM | #5 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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15-06-2013, 09:10 AM | #6 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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it the article is correct I understand why Ford pulled out $50 / hour is unstainable in the current climate. if Ford workers had taken a cut to realistic levels they might still have a future.
I realise that it is a JD article and the figure may be wrong but anything close to this figure will spell the end of the car industry in Australia.
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Everyone starts off with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the experience bag before the luck bag is empty. "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." Start a new career as a bus driver Rides: FG2 XR6 stock at this stage but a very nice ride xc 4 DOOR X CHASER 5.8 UNDER RESTO |
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15-06-2013, 09:19 AM | #7 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,801
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I understand Mercedes-benz factory workers in their plants in Germany are on the equilivent of an average of $32 U.S.per hour. Not sure if that's the all-up cost to Mercedes-benz or the core hourly rate to be honest.
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15-06-2013, 10:03 AM | #8 | ||
Blue Blood
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: SA
Posts: 1,507
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Make no mistake, Holden are relieved that Ford made the decision to pull out. They are going to do the same and are already getting people ready for it.
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15-06-2013, 10:11 AM | #9 | |||
The BEST Falcon is the AU
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Location: VIC
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You should keep your opinion to yourself when you have no idea. I'm a top level fitter and Turner at ford's and it's no where even close to 50 an hour, Production workers less again. |
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15-06-2013, 10:37 AM | #10 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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15-06-2013, 10:43 AM | #11 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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And that's the point people see a screaming headline like $50/hour costst of an employee and assume that's the actual hourly rate.
What companies do is add up all the benefit values (cash and non-cash) to employees including wages, leave, Super contributions, work cover insurance, training ect and then they divide through by the actual hours worked for the company which excludes annual leave, sick leave, public holidays and any long service available. Another sneaky one is down days when no work is done but employees receive half pay... This is not just something specific to Ford or Holden, it's on most people's salaray and wage packages, yet we never actually realise the cash benefit of the hourly rate attributed to actual utilization. I was shocked when I worked out my own actual hourly rate including all benefits and allowances. Last edited by jpd80; 15-06-2013 at 10:52 AM. |
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15-06-2013, 10:50 AM | #12 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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The trick is to make sure you are worth it to your employer.
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15-06-2013, 10:53 AM | #13 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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That's right, the perceived contribution we make to our respective employers business is why we're all paid differently...
All I know is that this very divisive topic was used as an excuse for Ford to push through, a two tier wage system ($14/hr new hires) something rejected by workers in Canada and Ford Australia Quote:
a lot of sub $40K sales immediately turned int +$40K sales, pity a similar change was not able to be done with falcon but years of discounting XR6 made it the new XT and destroyed any perceives +$40K cache.. Last edited by jpd80; 15-06-2013 at 10:58 AM. |
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15-06-2013, 02:38 PM | #14 | ||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Salamander Bay
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to make it understandable to a top level fitter I have highlighted the parts you obviously missed in jumping to unreasonable conclusions. maybe if Fords top level fitters are not capable of reading a simple post without getting it wrong it may explain their problem sorry if I hurt your feelings but I usually expect people to accurately read and comprehend what I write before flaming me. Quote:
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Everyone starts off with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the experience bag before the luck bag is empty. "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." Start a new career as a bus driver Rides: FG2 XR6 stock at this stage but a very nice ride xc 4 DOOR X CHASER 5.8 UNDER RESTO |
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15-06-2013, 10:26 AM | #15 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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15-06-2013, 10:45 AM | #16 | ||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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It is a tricky one to work out as it costs the same in labour to build a Territory Titanium as it does a commercial one tonner.
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15-06-2013, 12:32 PM | #17 | ||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
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The government red tape and taxes would add a decent amount of cost because countries like Thailand where it is much cheaper to make cars wouldn't have the systems in place there we have (for better and worse) and their infrastructure wouldn't be as good. Apart from the company tax rate and GST, there's a number of other taxes businesses have to pay in Australia. Even if Holden workers do take a pay cut, what guarantees do they get that they don't get shut down in a few years anyway? Would it apply all the way through to upper management? That's the only way they might get it through if the bosses set the example first. I've seen this before (on a smaller scale) where a few people were asked to give up entitlements so redundancies didn't have to happen. A month later 5 of about 30 were canned. So they could accept a hit to help the company and get screwed over anyway.
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15-06-2013, 04:54 PM | #18 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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If Ford labour is accounting for $10 million of the $63 million in production, and australian suppliers employed 3 workers for every Ford worker (and we do hear stories of how one car assembly job = 7 jobs in the supplier base), then your looking at approx $40 million dollars (ford $10 million, supplier base $30 million) in labour costs to make 60 to 70 million dollars in production. Well north of 50%. There are car plants in the world that pump out 400,000 plus cars a year (13 times more than Fords Ozs production), with 3000 - 4000 workers (2.5 - 3.5 times Ford Ozs workforce). Thats where you get your labour costs down to around 15%. |
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15-06-2013, 05:58 PM | #19 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Even at $50/hour cost x 1250 workers x 8 hours, that equals $500,000 per day.
spread across 148 vehicles a day that's $3,378 per vehicle. Generally, supplier prices include labour to make parts but as w know, a lot of those parts now come from outside Australia through Ford Asia pacific supplier network and suppliers still here in Australia are told to match foreign prices of lose contracts. So the cost of local parts is mostly on par with what can be sourced overseas, probably why locals are slowly going broke.. Last edited by jpd80; 15-06-2013 at 06:05 PM. |
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15-06-2013, 10:42 AM | #20 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Ford production worker is $26 an hour, by the time long service leave, sick leave, and workcover premiums etc are added on, maybe it is $50 an hour?
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15-06-2013, 05:41 PM | #21 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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delete
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15-06-2013, 12:09 PM | #22 | ||
Where to next??
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 8,893
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So, rather than cut what goes directly into the pocket of the worker, why can't they lobby to reduce some of the business expenses / red tape instead?
Paying $20-25 per hr for the pleasure of having a worker employed in top of their take home pay is what's really killing the business. Wonder how many would choose the option of reduced benefits like sick pay / holiday pay / smoko break / tea break / clothing allowances etc over a pay cut??????? Simplistic approach???
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15-06-2013, 12:56 PM | #23 | |||
The BEST Falcon is the AU
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Location: VIC
Posts: 2,096
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I think you'll find that other western countries like Europe/USA ect are more than $50 an hour. They companies and governments can spin all the rubbish like wages/aussie dollar/carbon tax ect but it all comes down to the import tariff and import tariff only. Thailand - 80% Germany - 10 to 25% Korea - 8% The blood is on John Button's hands, the funny part is I've been a tradie for 7 years now and I have never voted labour. Well sorry for derailing this thread back on topic :-) |
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15-06-2013, 02:04 PM | #24 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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15-06-2013, 02:28 PM | #25 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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15-06-2013, 02:32 PM | #26 | ||
GT
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: SYDNEY
Posts: 9,205
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they dont have to do anything mate . it's up to companies to stop looking after the share holders who leach money off the system . money for nothing sends everyone broke except the people funding the money for nothing .
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15-06-2013, 02:50 PM | #27 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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15-06-2013, 02:59 PM | #28 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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The Buton Plan was always about bringing in cheaper cars for people to buy,
thirty years on, i think that selfish attitude has cost us our auto industry. Level playing field my A**. |
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16-06-2013, 04:54 PM | #29 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Quote:
Asking for a Billion more?
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16-06-2013, 06:47 PM | #30 | ||
Starter Motor
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Gold Coast
Posts: 27
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It was in the news today that Holden won't make there redundancy target. Could be more than a pat cut comming.
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