How many gears are too many gears?

[jaydee]

I remember in the 70's when the 5 speed manual gear box came out, it was a God send to get rid of that over revving the poor engine was doing.
Auto's were just about all 3 speed.

Then autos became a 4 speed (or an overdrive gear), another good step for fuel consumption.

Now in the last few years we have ventured into 6 speed territory, even Kia have a 6 speed manual or auto in their 1.6 litre cars, really, is that necessary in a 1.6?
And Chrysler have just released an 8 speed auto. Thats 8 gears!!!

Where is it going to stop, next it will be 10 speed, so how many gears are too many, is it just more things to go wrong?

[xisled]

The 8 speed auto it not new it has been around since 2007. A heap of BMW haven them. But IMO the more money into making these boxes the better they will be.

[mik]

good question, and when they start making more use of gearboxes using smaller engines, with the gearbox doing more work swapping ratio`s more often to compensate, will gearboxes be wearing out faster/need replacement more often?

[FGII-XR6]

smaller gain a big advantage from more gears as they will accelerate better in the lower gears compensating for the lower power to some degree. all engine sizes will benifit from the inproved fuel consumption of more gears

[H.G]

cant wait for the 18 speed road ranger gearbox driven GT comes out..

[GT 276]

Originally Posted by H.G

cant wait for the 18 speed road ranger gearbox driven GT comes out..

hahaha, double clutching and splitting gears!!

[Riksta]

Originally Posted by SixTApeal

hahaha, double clutching and splitting gears!!

But then people will granny shift. And not double clutch like they should.

[austyphoon]

Originally Posted by jaydee

And Chrysler have just released an 8 speed auto. Thats 8 gears!!!

As mentioned, the 8 speed ZF is old. Chrysler are going to have to make it in-house because ZF are bringing out a 9 speed to replace it.

[Rodge]

The 9 Speed ZF is front wheel drive only.
Mercedes-benz will be first to market for a nine speed rear wheel drive auto next year in the new 2014 model S Class.
The 8 speed ZF is in huge demand globally and ZF couldn't supply sufficient quantities so that's why Chrysler have invested $300 millionj to build them under licence. ZF 8 speed is claimed to be 6% more fuel efficient than the excellent 6 speed of the same Ilk. How many gears is too many. Mercedes-benz are on record as saying their new 9G Tronic box is very expensive to build and even more ratio's would be highly probelmatic in terms of very minimal further gains for very serious further expenditure.

9 speed is probably as much as well get for the forseeable future although Hyundai are rumoured to be working on a 10 speed auto....me thinks they need to get their 6 speed auto's sorted properly first. My 2 cents.

[Shonky.]

Like everything I think it will go just beyond the optimal point in the name of one-upmanship, and then come back to what is the ideal number of ratios as we realise the trade offs involved

[Windsor220]

If you go too many gear you may as well just go CVT.

[jpd80]

Already covered here: http://fordforums.com.au/showthread....hlight=GM+Ford

[mik]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

If you go too many gear you may as well just go CVT.

what a horrible thought :(.

[2011G6E]

That's my theory exactly with the endless number of gear ratios starting to appear in autos...they will inevitably get that close together that the engine is efficiently kept in the sweet spot that is best for fuel economy and power, and the gears will change around it to suit but keep the engine in the best rev range despite what you are doing on the throttle pedal.

That's pretty much the definition of what a CVT does. Why don't manufacturers work on existing tech, the CVT, and get it working better?

I mean, if you keep stuffing gears into more or less the same sized gearbox, then something has to be made weaker and more fragile to allow so much complexity into a physical size that can't really be made all that much bigger because of packaging problems in a car. The gear sets simply can't be as strong when they're necissarily physically smaller.

[K93George]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

I mean, if you keep stuffing gears into more or less the same sized gearbox, then something has to be made weaker and more fragile to allow so much complexity into a physical size that can't really be made all that much bigger because of packaging problems in a car. The gear sets simply can't be as strong when they're necissarily physically smaller.

Really not thinking out of the box here. Technology advances at an alarming rate, new manufacturing will be developed, different materials used and so forth. I'm sure the same has been said about the transistor, how much smaller can you get it, what about heat what about this, this, this and that! Yet Intel has 22nm tri-gate transistors that are not only smaller but more efficient and reliable then the previous 32nm bunch. We will eventually reach an atomic level, oh no the limit has been reached, no! We then start building 3D microchips by stacking transistors on top of each other, ok i'm getting off topic here.

[Ford_The_Win]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

I mean, if you keep stuffing gears into more or less the same sized gearbox, then something has to be made weaker and more fragile to allow so much complexity into a physical size that can't really be made all that much bigger because of packaging problems in a car. The gear sets simply can't be as strong when they're necissarily physically smaller.

It's not something I'd be worrying about, they will probably still last longer and be more reliable than 3 and 4 speed automatic transmissions of the past. It's been proven over and over again that despite the huge amount of complex equipment in modern cars, they last longer and are more reliable than the more simple cars of yesteryear.

Increasing the number of gears in automatic transmissions is doing wonders for the performance of small cars and reducing the fuel consumption of larger cars, which has gotta be a good thing right?

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by jaydee

Now in the last few years we have ventured into 6 speed territory, even Kia have a 6 speed manual or auto in their 1.6 litre cars, really, is that necessary in a 1.6?

Well it would be more necessary in a 1.6 than in a big 6 or V8, as it has less torque and there for would benefit from more gears more than a big block V8 with tonnes of torque that would be happy running around with two or three gears.

There will however be a point of no return, the 6 speed manual in my GT is about the point of no return for a manual V8 in Australia, never really used 5th or 6th until I fitted 4.11's, even with 4.11's you almost need to be speeding to use 6th gear.

If you make the ratios closer you will for ever be changing gears in a manual, realistically 4 driving gears and 2 over drives in a manual car is more than enough. Unless you live in Germany with no speed limits cruising a 200km plus may be a 7th gear or 3rd overdrive would come in handy.

For autos, not really sure, my H3 has a 4 speed auto and it could use a few extra ratios in my opinion especially when towing car trailers and the like 6 or 7 speed auto would be nice.

[thefargo]

a little off topic, but didn't the Tucker (1948) only have 1 gear? powered by a helicopter engine with plenty of torque?

[big_landau]

i reckon anything over a 5 speed manual and a 4 speed auto is overkill.
if they keep going it would be interesting to drive a 8 speed manual 1.0L hyundai in the city come 2020,you may need a shoulder reconstruction after a few weeks but you can say to all your mates you got a 8 speed in your car.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by big_landau

i reckon anything over a 5 speed manual and a 4 speed auto is overkill.

Wtf.

My EL is crying out for a 6th gear.

should be sitting at 800-1000 Rpm @ 100Km/h, not 1700....

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by big_landau

i reckon anything over a 5 speed manual and a 4 speed auto is overkill.

Nah, the six speed auto in my ute is fantastic and totally needed for it's good economy.

[K93George]

No problem with more gears, better acceleration and smoother transitions into the next gear. I still vote direct drive eletric motors are the way to go, one for each wheel. No gears.

[mr smith]

Originally Posted by K93George

I still vote direct drive eletric motors are the way to go, one for each wheel. No gears.

Yup, once the price and range gets sorted I will be going electric.

[MITCHAY]

Well if it's an auto who really cares how many it's got. Not like you have to change the cogs.

I've only had 5 speed manuals though. I think 6 speeds are just about right.

I think some company was developing a 7 speed manual not sure who it was though. Don't think I would go more than that.

[henry 351]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

Well if it's an auto who really cares how many it's got. Not like you have to change the cogs.

I've only had 5 speed manuals though. I think 6 speeds are just about right.

I think some company was developing a 7 speed manual not sure who it was though. Don't think I would go more than that.

The new 2012 Porsche 911 has a choice of 7 speed manual or 7 speed auto. I'm sure it won't be too long before other manufacturers follow their lead with the manual box.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by henry 351

The new 2012 Porsche 911 has a choice of 7 speed manual or 7 speed auto. I'm sure it won't be too long before other manufacturers follow their lead with the manual box.

Probably not till other manufacturers build cars with a top speed of 290km/hr, I would guess a lot of those gears would be overdrives with only the first 4 being used for general driving

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by henry 351

The new 2012 Porsche 911 has a choice of 7 speed manual or 7 speed auto. I'm sure it won't be too long before other manufacturers follow their lead with the manual box.

Sounds about right. In years to come they will probably be the only company that offers high end cars with a manual box. God bless them

[JC]

The general population tend to think that more gears = more speed. I mean most Falcon drivers I know swear that the 6 speed is sooooo much better than the 4 speed. When asked why the response is along the lines "it has 6 gears so it must be faster". In fact, the good old 4 speed auto is every bit as quick as the 6 speed, but the spread of ratios simply helps with fuel economy.

I think the answer though will be somewhat dictated by packaging and ergonomics. I reckon 6 speed manual is probably the most you'd want in a manual, and 6 speed auto in a small car, perhaps 9 speed in a large car.

[jpd80]

At the moment Jaguar XF is available with a 2.2 litre I-4 diesel and 8-speed auto,
coupled with stop start, the thing gets something like 5 litres/100 km combined.
I've not driven it but I could imagine with 420 nm on tap, it would go all right...

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by JC

I think the answer though will be somewhat dictated by packaging and ergonomics. I reckon 6 speed manual is probably the most you'd want in a manual, and 6 speed auto in a small car, perhaps 9 speed in a large car.

'
Why would the small car need less gears???

If anything it should be the other way around, as small cars generally have low torque engines there for requiring more gears to operate efficiently.