What the hell is going wrong with some of us Men??…

4Vman · 29-10-2009, 09:10 AM

16 Charged over "pack" Rape:

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/s...006301,00.html

There has been literally dozens of these cases over the past 12 months...

Well I’m not sure how or what to say but this sickens me to the core, and to be honest I’ve had enough of reading about these kinds of things.
What’s going wrong with society in Australia? What’s going wrong in the minds of some Youths/Men...? especially when they get together in groups?
Why doesn’t at-least 1 of them have a conscience and be a man and stop this from happening? 16 guys involved????
Why do some think its ok to disrespect women like this? I’m fed up with it… it’s about time as a society and as individuals we take a stronger pro active stand against this kind of behavior.
Women can and should not “trust” human nature in what should be a civilized safe society.
We're at a point where women need to avoid situations where they could be taken advantage of…
Come on guys... this is despicable..

RG · 29-10-2009, 09:22 AM

Very true Norm, not much I can say here.

What astounds me though is the club coming out and saying that those involved hadn't been involved in any classes on how to treat women. WTF??? Neither have I but FFS I don't need them, it's common bloody sense I thought.

4Vman · 29-10-2009, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RG

Very true Norm, not much I can say here.

What astounds me though is the club coming out and saying that those involved hadn't been involved in any classes on how to treat women. WTF??? Neither have I but FFS I don't need them, it's common bloody sense I thought.

Its quite frightening isn't it that in 2009 we need to train men on how to treat women with respect...

I do think though in light of all this that these workshops are a good pro active approach for sporting clubs.. because clearly the mindset of some is out of touch with common sense and decent moral behavior...

JG66ME · 01-11-2009, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Its quite frightening isn't it that in 2009 we need to train men on how to treat women with respect...

I do think though in light of all this that these workshops are a good pro active approach for sporting clubs.. because clearly the mindset of some is out of touch with common sense and decent moral behavior...

Norm

The truth is we (collective) have never known how to treat women. What is even worse is that things are getting worse.

Those of us that have learned now sit in horror at what goes on.

Go to Bathurst and hear "Get out your Tits"

Some times I just feel ashamed.
Wake up MEN. Women are not chattels like furniture. They are human beings.

Fireblade · 02-11-2009, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JG66ME

Norm

The truth is we (collective) have never known how to treat women. What is even worse is that things are getting worse.

Those of us that have learned now sit in horror at what goes on.

Go to Bathurst and hear "Get out your Tits"

Some times I just feel ashamed.
Wake up MEN. Women are not chattels like furniture. They are human beings.

Hence why I dont go to summernats, because if I do my wife would want to go to and there is no way I will put her in this situation.

GTJOHN · 29-10-2009, 09:34 AM

You need to attend classes now to learn how to behave and what is right & wrong ??
maybe a good swift kick up the backside when these clowns were growing up from parents would have taught them some respect .... To many dropkicks around nowdays

**Polyal** · 29-10-2009, 09:36 AM

I really dont get it either. Not only is it sick its freaking gay, I dont want to see my mate doing the nasty...seriously.

Yet again we call for harsher penalties but will it happen?

The other thing that gets my goat is how the media bring the AFL into it, its got nothing to do with the AFL its just some bumkin town full of DH's...ah!

Mark^^ · 29-10-2009, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

I really dont get it either. Not only is it sick its freaking gay,

I object to the use of the term 'gay' in relation to this nasty sort of stuff.

MITCHAY · 29-10-2009, 09:43 AM

A lot of guys just have lack of respect for women generally in the way they talk and act, it's wrong and how these pigs get this attitude is beyond me.

**Polyal** · 29-10-2009, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

A lot of guys just have lack of respect for women generally in the way they talk and act, it's wrong and how these pigs get this attitude is beyond me.

Yeah I dont get it.

I dont know ANYONE that would even think of the idea and ive got a very large spread of friends/associates from all backgrounds/religions etc.

I honestly cant explain it.

4Vman · 29-10-2009, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

Yeah I dont get it.

I dont know ANYONE that would even think of the idea and ive got a very large spread of friends/associates from all backgrounds/religions etc.

I honestly cant explain it.

Yes..

What willing and consenting people do behind closed doors is their own business, group sex etc is a personal choice, and that in NOT what this is about.
Its been "suggested" that the portrayal of aggressive group sex (multiple men/1 girl) in porn is triggering this behavior...

This begs the question.. how are these people being bought up and how are their moral standards being formed? where is the compromise occurring? Home? school? social/peer or sporting environments? dare i say it the internet?
Why arent these people able to differentiate between fantasy and reality?

GK · 01-11-2009, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Its been "suggested" that the portrayal of aggressive group sex (multiple men/1 girl) in porn is triggering this behavior...

This begs the question.. how are these people being bought up and how are their moral standards being formed? where is the compromise occurring? Home? school? social/peer or sporting environments? dare i say it the Internet?
Why aren't these people able to differentiate between fantasy and reality?

I'm basically a Chaplain where I work and I spend time with groups of young fellas (sometimes in large, sometimes in small groups) discussing the negative effects of pornography. I've also taught young people over a number of years in our Personal Development Curriculum, mainly Yr8-9.

I will most likely get flamed for saying some of this, however I believe it's the truth.

1. People have NEVER had such easy access to porn.

2. Soooo many young people are allowed to access porn via their computers, mobile phones or TV/DVD setup, in their own bedrooms. Only God knows what our young people may get up to in such unsupervised situations. Many people think this is fine, or have their heads in the sand about the negative effect porn has on the way men may view women. Parents are conned it seems, to believe that they have no right to monitor or approve/disapprove of what their children do on their own time. This is rubbish. Parents are supposed to parent, not be their child's best friend. (Flame suit on!)

3. Porn, like any addiction, starts out as a bit of a thrill, then slowly (sometimes very quickly) grabs people and starts to control them. Think gambling, smoking, illicit drugs, alcohol and you see the telltale signs of people systematically being negatively taken over by such things.

In the case of pornography, just like drugs, the seriousness of what kids are watching gets more and more horrible, as the initial images lose their effect, and they start going for more "intense/harder core images". The young fellas I talk to about this know exactly what I'm talking about here. If unchecked, they may end up looking at stuff that is truly sickening.

4. A man's view/perception of a women becomes distorted, and may only give young (or older) people the idea that women only have sexual value. Sadly, our music videos, TV shows, movies etc, etc only generally serve to reinforce this idea. Young people with limited self control or media awareness are no match for this kind of thing.

We need to teach them to be intelligent consumers of the media and to teach them to be critical of the media manipulation they are subjected to.

5. Sadly it takes quite a lot of time to get this idea through to young fellas, as they're so often driven by urges and changes they are going through. A young person's brain isn't fully developed until about 25, which explains a lot of things, but without proper instruction, ability to relate to women on many different levels, and some careful and deliberate censorship, we do our young people such a dis service.

6. I once watched this interview with Ted Bundy when he was on death row in the states. The term "serial killer" was introduced when he was doing his evil deeds with women. He told the interviewer that all of the men he was associating with in jail on death row, who'd murdered women, had ALL started with porn. That's absolutely alarming!

This of course doesn't mean anyone who's looked at or who is addicted to porn becomes a killer of women. But porn has a powerful effect on the way people see women. Dangerous indeed.

7. My last point. A former Chief Censor of Australia (10 or so years in the job IIRC) quit or retired from his job, and guess what he started doing? He's in the porn business. Don't tell me all those hours of watching dodgy stuff in order to be able to classify it for our viewing didn't damage his view of people, women in particular.

GK

BENT_8 · 01-11-2009, 07:59 PM

I see what your saying, but i find it hard to believe there is any one thing that leads to this type of behaviour.
Sure access to extreme porn has never been easier, but gang rapes etc. have been happening long before the net.
You can hire dvd's from your local store which depict extreme gore, that doesn't mean everyone who see's it will struggle to seperate fact from fiction, but for some troubled minds it's not so straight forward.

I believe it is like drugs and alcohol, if a person has underlying issues they may well have serious side effects. Others can drink or smoke til their comatose over many years and still function as normal citizens.

You cant tell me 16 guys all with porn related issues just happen to come together in one room on one night.
I would take a guess and say there was a couple of damaged individuals and a dozen or so hanger on's who got caught up in the event.

I know people who had strict upbringings and turned out nothing but trouble, others barely touched and turned out fine, again, individuals react differently to situations, there is no right or wrong way to discipline.

Either way, it doesn't make it right and they should be dealt with.

Tom_Jane · 29-10-2009, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

A lot of guys just have lack of respect for women generally in the way they talk and act, it's wrong and how these pigs get this attitude is beyond me.

Hold it. I love making the odd sexist joke. Political correctness is just evil incarnate.

But you will have a hard time finding a man who treats women as well I do.

And it is so true that very often only bad things result when people band together. For example if you go into Surfers Paradise and you see a bunch of guys walking together GET OUT OF THEIR WAY because you know they mean to pick a fight. Real tough guys they are too picking fights when they know they have the group to back them up.

FGII-XR6 · 29-10-2009, 10:31 AM

the problem is we treat footballers as heros and they feel they are entitled to do as they want. this is no excuse for their actions just why they act like neanderthals.

it's time we realised that heroes are people who put their lives at risk to help others not a bunch of neanderthals who are good at a game

4Vman · 29-10-2009, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by au3xr6

the problem is we treat footballers as heros and they feel they are entitled to do as they want. this is no excuse for their actions just why they act like neanderthals.

it's time we realised that heroes are people who put their lives at risk to help others not a bunch of neanderthals who are good at a game

The problem is not isolated or limited to "footballers".. we only hear about groups of footballers because the media get a reaction from it..

The problem is far greater reaching than just members of sporting codes..

A friend is a member of the sexual crimes unit for the V Police... its not a just a "footballer" issue..

FGII-XR6 · 29-10-2009, 10:50 AM

i'm not saying it's omly footballers but it is far more prevalent in this group they belive if they want they take because they are "heroes"

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

The problem is not isolated or limited to "footballers".. we only hear about groups of footballers because the media get a reaction from it..

The problem is far greater reaching than just members of sporting codes..

A friend is a member of the sexual crimes unit for the V Police... its not a just a "footballer" issue..

RAMD67 · 29-10-2009, 10:41 AM

Of the 30 or so guys reported to be at the house why did not one of them raise the alarm with the cops?? How is it that so many men think that it is ok to do this to a woman...the younger generation is getting worse and worse and I'm only 26! There is a great difference to how me and my mates thought and acted towards women and how 18 year olds act today. Or maybe I was in the minority when I was growing up?

How would these guys feel if it was their mum, sister, daughter or relative that had to go through that ordeal?

The only solace is that these guys will get a right kicking in prison...which is a lot less of a punishment than what the two effected ladies will go through the rest of their lives.

A friend of mine was raped at 18 and she had a lot of issues ranging from body, trust, relationship problems both friends and men, self harming. It took her really until she was 21 before she could trust others again and go out to places.

It is a disgusting act and it troubles me that in a so called civil society that this happens so regularly. Education starts at home so I think that parents need to take some responsibility for this and step up and teach their kids how to act and behave and then when in a situation can make the correct judgment call and not continue to let this happen. Maybe our cities will finally start to be safe again at night!

Sorry rant over

BIGJB · 29-10-2009, 11:08 AM

I blame the do gooders and greenies holy and soly for this sort of behaviour.
For those of us who are a little older remember back to the days when smaking
children was ok, when getting the cane or strap or ruler at school was a part of
our disipilne. We knew the boundries we knew the lines and where they were
drawn. We didn't in most case stray to far over those lines because we knew
the consequences if we did. With this disipline we also learnt respect which is
what is missing in this picture and most of society today.

For those of you older guys out there can you imagine in our day mouthing off
at a cop or any other authority figue..... it just wouldn't have happened simply
because we were taught right from wrong from a very early age when telling
kids NO wasn't considered "negitive reinforcement".

I unfortunatly see this "no respect" happening with my own children because
thier hippy mother won't tell them no or dish out any real punishment when they
step out of line. Instead they get sent to time out in thier room which is of
course full of thier toys and all the other things they love.
At school is no better because there they get sent to the "responsible thinking chair".

Bring back the cane, bring back the wooden spoon, bring back the old mans boot.
Never did me any harm and I am sure as hell if it wasn't for these things I
would be in jail right now because I was some what of a little bast... when I
was a kid and all that kept me grounded was the above mentioned.

:

SB076 · 29-10-2009, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 99GHIA

I blame the do gooders and greenies holy and soly for this sort of behaviour.
For those of us who are a little older remember back to the days when smaking
children was ok, when getting the cane or strap or ruler at school was a part of
our disipilne. We knew the boundries we knew the lines and where they were
drawn. We didn't in most case stray to far over those lines because we knew
the consequences if we did. With this disipline we also learnt respect which is
what is missing in this picture and most of society today.

For those of you older guys out there can you imagine in our day mouthing off
at a cop or any other authority figue..... it just wouldn't have happened simply
because we were taught right from wrong from a very early age when telling
kids NO wasn't considered "negitive reinforcement".

I unfortunatly see this "no respect" happening with my own children because
thier hippy mother won't tell them no or dish out any real punishment when they
step out of line. Instead they get sent to time out in thier room which is of
course full of thier toys and all the other things they love.
At school is no better because there they get sent to the "responsible thinking chair".

Bring back the cane, bring back the wooden spoon, bring back the old mans boot.
Never did me any harm and I am sure as hell if it wasn't for these things I
would be in jail right now because I was some what of a little bast... when I
was a kid and all that kept me grounded was the above mentioned.

:

I agree, there are issues out there in society that need to be addressed, unfortunately the vocal minority will come up with more rubbish and things will not improve.

Sperate but related issue, the police are in trouble for shooting a man that was threatening them with swords - herein lies the problem with society, in the past, your actions had conseqeunces. At present however there seems to be a big push to eliminate the consequences of your actions.

Magna · 29-10-2009, 11:42 AM

im all for what been said if its true but don't forget they havn't been found guilty yet.

Spudz27 · 29-10-2009, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 99GHIA

I blame the do gooders and greenies holy and soly for this sort of behaviour.
For those of us who are a little older remember back to the days when smaking
children was ok, when getting the cane or strap or ruler at school was a part of
our disipilne. We knew the boundries we knew the lines and where they were
drawn. We didn't in most case stray to far over those lines because we knew
the consequences if we did. With this disipline we also learnt respect which is
what is missing in this picture and most of society today.

For those of you older guys out there can you imagine in our day mouthing off
at a cop or any other authority figue..... it just wouldn't have happened simply
because we were taught right from wrong from a very early age when telling
kids NO wasn't considered "negitive reinforcement".

I unfortunatly see this "no respect" happening with my own children because
thier hippy mother won't tell them no or dish out any real punishment when they
step out of line. Instead they get sent to time out in thier room which is of
course full of thier toys and all the other things they love.
At school is no better because there they get sent to the "responsible thinking chair".

Bring back the cane, bring back the wooden spoon, bring back the old mans boot.
Never did me any harm and I am sure as hell if it wasn't for these things I
would be in jail right now because I was some what of a little bast... when I
was a kid and all that kept me grounded was the above mentioned.

:

I don't know the age group you are targeting but I am 26 and I can tell you we didn't get the cane at school but I if I did something wrong I knew what to expect when I got home. I have 2 kids now a 3yr (nearly 4) old girl and an 8month old son. I smack (not hard but enough that she knows she did wrong after all she is 3) my daughter for backchatting us or doing something she knows was wrong before she did it, as I will do with my son when he is getting old enough to know right and wrong. We do have timeout for when a smack is not really warranted but it is in a corner facing a wall with no toys or anything.

BIGJB · 29-10-2009, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EDfutura25

but I if I did something wrong I knew what to expect when I got home.

There you have it. That is basically my exact point.
Seriously have a look at alot of the young kids out there today when you
are at the shops. Look at the way they speak to thier parents. Or more importantly
the way thier parents interact with them when they are misbehaving.
You were obviously brought up with morals and respect which I am glad to see
you are trying to enstill on your own children which I commend you for.
I am not saying that there is anything wrong as such with time out if it is done correctly
and used in conjuction with other disiplinary actions. But to send a kid to time
out in thier room with there toys or my personal pet hate the responsible thinking
chair at school. ( I am talking a grade 1 childin this imparticular case)
is just stupidity and not going to teach them any consiquences what so ever.

dave289 · 02-11-2009, 08:57 AM

This is what happens when you let too much S h It in your front door and the australain way and morals slowly(or is that quickly) erode away. In the old day these dogs would be dealt with more properly like the anita cobby killers who where given life ,much more of a deterant than the jokes dished out today.on the other hand some women put themselves in such situations and then when it gets out of hand or they are going to be shown as a slute then they cry rape. now there was a story about some guy raping some fashion guru woman in the toilets at the ivy bar in the city. now lets have a look at it, these where comunal toilets meaning both men and women use the same bathroom.It states that it went on from 2:15 till 2:45. a good half hour of which many many people would have been going to the toilets so she could of yelled for help. now if she was that stuffed from taking drugs these women usually follow each other to the toilet in droves ,so doubt she was overcome by drugs if she was than who has put themselves there.the more likely looking scenario is that she "the well known fashion guru who cant be named" decided to go and have sex with some guy in the toilets for half an hour while propably off her head and then when relised that someone saw her who might bring her undune with her husband for example and now wants to cry rape.the guy has claimed it was consentual and come on who is going to rape someone for 1/2 an hour in a public toilet, and one which probably had over 50 people come and go in that time.

MAD · 29-10-2009, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 99GHIA

I blame the do gooders and greenies holy and soly for this sort of behaviour.
For those of us who are a little older remember back to the days when smaking
children was ok, when getting the cane or strap or ruler at school was a part of
our disipilne. We knew the boundries we knew the lines and where they were
drawn. We didn't in most case stray to far over those lines because we knew
the consequences if we did. With this disipline we also learnt respect which is
what is missing in this picture and most of society today.

There in lies the problem.
No one seems to be learning what consequences are. Sitting on a chair for 5mins is not consequences.

Spudz27 · 29-10-2009, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RAMD67

I'm only 26! There is a great difference to how me and my mates thought and acted towards women and how 18 year olds act today. Or maybe I was in the minority when I was growing up?

Same here. I had a few mates who were real low lifes but they would never stoop this low.

People like this should rot in jail for 25yrs minimum but alas our stupid legal system will give them nothing more than a slap on the wrist, sure they will (I hope) get jail time but it won't be sufficient to deter them. Whilst sometimes I disagree with the way other countries laws work, there are times I agree. In the U.S they would basically rot in jail for this, in other countries they would be shot. Maybe if our laws were not so crap people would be detered.

BIGJB · 29-10-2009, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EDfutura25

People like this should rot in jail for 25yrs minimum

At a cost of about 50k per year per inmate, times that by 25years $1,250000
times that by the 16 involved $20,000,000. Cost of 16 5 meter lengths of
decent rope is all of what $200 tops. Think the solution is right there.

Jason[98.EL] · 29-10-2009, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 99GHIA

At a cost of about 50k per year per inmate, times that by 25years $1,250000
times that by the 16 involved $20,000,000. Cost of 16 5 meter lengths of
decent rope is all of what $200 tops. Think the solution is right there.

Agree 100%

Bring bac capital punishment i say

BENT_8 · 29-10-2009, 11:59 AM

Bloody neanderthals!

I cant believe where society is headed in this country.
Why has this gang mentality emerged in young men?

Not a sexual assault, but just 2 days ago i witnessed half a dozen young men beating up a woman(one of their women) in our local shopping centre carpark.
They then walked into the shopping complex and bashed my neighbours son with chairs, an old bike, a bottle to the head, then chased him home and tore out roses from his front yard.
All cos he didnt have a smoke!

How bloody brave we've become!

Franco Cozzo · 29-10-2009, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EDfutura25

Same here. I had a few mates who were real low lifes but they would never stoop this low.

People like this should rot in jail for 25yrs minimum but alas our stupid legal system will give them nothing more than a slap on the wrist, sure they will (I hope) get jail time but it won't be sufficient to deter them. Whilst sometimes I disagree with the way other countries laws work, there are times I agree. In the U.S they would basically rot in jail for this, in other countries they would be shot. Maybe if our laws were not so crap people would be detered.

The general population in jail doesn't tend to take crimes against women lightly, even though they're all scumbags, most still have a sense of morality. Though I do agree, more jailtime would be good, but it won't happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 99GHIA

At a cost of about 50k per year per inmate, times that by 25years $1,250000
times that by the 16 involved $20,000,000. Cost of 16 5 meter lengths of
decent rope is all of what $200 tops. Think the solution is right there.

How about a 10 cent bullet? Line them up and you could probably get it done with 2.

No wait, we'll let the general population inside the prison kill them, they'll enjoy it and it'll be free.