Pinging... what causes it exactly? How is it avoided/fixed?

[Pepscobra]

My current daily-driver (2004 Escape) has been 'pinging' on occasion. Particulalry when going up hills or under load at low speeds.
I want to fix it... but to do that, I need to understand what causes it...??
Is it fuel related? Spark plugs? carbon build up?

[Raptor]

Read this; http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinging

What fuel are you using?

Easy fix is higher octane.

[Pepscobra]

Thanks for that.
Currently running regular 91.
I'll try a tank of premium unleaded next tank to see if that helps.

[Windsor220]

Either loading it up too much in the wrong gear, using poor quality fuel or its got carbon build up causing hot spots/increased compression

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by Pepscobra

My current daily-driver (2004 Escape) has been 'pinging' on occasion. Particulalry when going up hills or under load at low speeds.
I want to fix it... but to do that, I need to understand what causes it...??
Is it fuel related? Spark plugs? carbon build up?

All of the above and more. May be timing is too advanced, poor quality fuel, compression too high, wrong plugs, not enough spark, engine running too hot, etc etc

[Pepscobra]

How do you clean out carbon build-up?

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by Pepscobra

How do you clean out carbon build-up?

You can get cleaning products that suck in through a vacuum source while the engine is running and wash down the valves and combustion chamber.

[watejs06]

Originally Posted by Pepscobra

How do you clean out carbon build-up?

There are a few ways, both of which are as crude as each other.

1. While engine is running, poor SMALL amounts of water down the intake, this "water injection" as it were. Loosens up the carbon and will make it's way out the exhaust.

However - to much water = Hydrolocking of engine, bent valves, rods, crack pistons. the potential for an epic disaster.

2. You can purchase a carbon cleaner, or pay certain people to do it. Fairly Similar to the above, however this solution is flammable so it will burn (to an extent).
While engine is stopped poor soloution into engine intake, turn over engine with breaker bar on front harmonic bolt, add more solution.

Let engine sit over night, then in the morning try and fire her up ! End result is a bit bang and a huge cloud of Carbon crap from the exhaust.


I have been tried both of these, and I DO NOT recommend them, they are a last resort kinda deal. In saying that - the water trick cleaned up the 400,000km old 5L windsor a treat !


How many Km's has the done ?

If I were you, Try a couple tanks of United P100 let the 10% ethanol clean up the injectors and bores.


Cheers
Jay

[ebxr8240]

Water injection will clean chambers big time! Check the cylinders on engines with blown head gaskets ?
Change down on hills .. Try some E10 ? It can clean chambers too.. Check for inlet leaks if engine has maf or air meter ? Plugs heat range could be too hot ? Fuel filter or pump may not be supplying enough fuel? Blocked or restrictive cat / exhaust? Could be spark jumping / cross firing between leads ?

[Pepscobra]

Cheers Jay, will try the P100 method first, see how that goes.
Oh, and its done 175,000 kms.

[XR Martin]

Give it an Italian tuneup

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Give it an Italian tuneup

+1

Fixed a S2000 that wasn't engaging VTEC with this method lol.

[CoupeKing]

Check the timing first. Usually the cheapest and easiest.

[BIONIC MAN]

VTEC just kicked in bro!!!

[STINKY NINJA]

Just run it on premium or 98 Joe it should be fine,maybe run a can of upper cylinder and combustion cleaner through the intake to clean out oil residue,comb chamber deposits etc.

[zilo]

Doesn't this car have a knock sensor in the ECU?

If it does then something is broken.

[rjr]

Originally Posted by zilo

Doesn't this car have a knock sensor in the ECU?

If it does then something is broken.

Either google it or check a workshop manual and see if that model has a knock sensor.

The ecu will adjust the timing so the engine doesn't ping and you can run it on the recommend fuel.

[esppwr]

Pinging is the air fuel mixture exploding, when an SI engine is running as it should the flame propagation creates a "controlled burn". Pinging generally occurs at low rpm high load or high rpm high load. Most new cars will ping if you stab at the throttle, manufactures tune as close as possible to the ping condition to optimise the engines Bsfc.
Car manufactures use the knock sensor as tool to optimise the tune, pushing the limits of the tune until knock is being detected then backing off a little and repeat the process constantly.
This is how modern cars optimise the tune for different fuels. I.e premium v normal unleaded
If your car is pinging going up a hill at low revs in a high gear, down gear & the pinging will disappear. If it is a high rpm & load situation it generally means something is not quite right, generally the case when a car has been tuned by the aftermarket. Car manufacturers tune conservatively for high rpm & load and use richer than ideal mixtures to avoid pinging in this condition as it can cause catastrophic engine damage.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by esppwr

. Most new cars will ping if you stab at the throttle, .

ROFL...they do not.

[06txr]

Originally Posted by zilo

ROFL...they do not.

They certainly can. If at cruse then stab the throttle, the ECU will most likely be at full spark advance. it will take the ECU a moment to hear the ping and pull spark advance out. You can often hear that.

During closed loop, most new cars have active knock control where is is listening all the time. Older cars still need to be in closed loop, but only listened under certain conditions...

Example is the EF EL and, from memory, the knock sensor was only active less than 4000rpm with throttle position greater than 50%

I would be trying to clean the engine up with some of the basic things listed above...

[zilo]

Originally Posted by 06txr

They certainly can. If at cruse then stab the throttle, the ECU will most likely be at full spark advance. it will take the ECU a moment to hear the ping and pull spark advance out. You can often hear that.

During closed loop, most new cars have active knock control where is is listening all the time. Older cars still need to be in closed loop, but only listened under certain conditions...

Example is the EF EL and, from memory, the knock sensor was only active less than 4000rpm with throttle position greater than 50%

I would be trying to clean the engine up with some of the basic things listed above...

Mate...you're way off, the comment was about new cars.

Show me a NEW car that pings?

An EL is a dinosaur with quasi fuel injection etc etc.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by zilo

Mate...you're way off, the comment was about new cars.

Show me a NEW car that pings?

An EL is a dinosaur with quasi fuel injection etc etc.

Honda Accords are well known for it

[06txr]

Originally Posted by zilo

Mate...you're way off, the comment was about new cars.

Show me a NEW car that pings?

An EL is a dinosaur with quasi fuel injection etc etc.

Mate, I would say come around and i will show you.... Heaps of cars will. Mates BF NA falcon Wagon. Again ECU CANNOT predict what you are going to do to the accelerator until after you have done it. It's therefore reactive. ETC helps, but they still can do it.

Was using the EF EL as an example. BTW, the 5.4 3 valve in the BA has NO knock sensors at all.

[_Ben]

This stuff is apparently the ducks nuts for cleaning carbon etc. No experience with it myself though

[2011G6E]

Leaded fuel...

[mik]

If I might offer another idea, if the car had never pinged before and has only just started doing this after filing up at servo X ...... change servos , all fuels are not equal qaulity.

[Pepscobra]

Well, looks like the pinging may have been caused by some dodgey fuel.
A fresh tank of juice last night appears to have rectified the pinging... so it seems.

Anyways, this weekend, I'll be cleaning the throttle-body. And if I'm feeling brave, I might even try the water injection method to 'steam clean' a bit of the carbon from the combustion chambers. I've done plenty of youtubing and reckon I'll be ok, so long as I take it very slowly.

[STINKY NINJA]

If you want clean combustion chambers get some ford combustion and intake clean,its much safer and there's zero chance of getting moisture inside your motor...

[Pepscobra]

Originally Posted by STINKY NINJA

If you want clean combustion chambers get some ford combustion and intake clean,its much safer and there's zero chance of getting moisture inside your motor...

I could do that...
But from what I've been reading, the water injection method does work and I'm curious to give it a go.
Have a look how this guys is doing it, damn near drowning the engine...!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bv4a3k-6Z4w

I'll be doing this slightly safer method:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izvz18xgfA0

[Crazy Dazz]

How the heck would you get CARBON build up in a modern engine?
Don't get me wrong, I have seen all sorts of crud in heads, but CARBON will simply burn, unless your engine is running way too rich.

Sudden onset pinging is most likely dodgy fuel. Something went out of whack in the blend and its "octane" rating is too low. Your car should compensate for this, but there's a limit to how far it will retard the spark.

If it persists, then I would start to suspect that something has gone wrong with the timing, so you have to start looking at sensors, etc.