new v6 holden using lots of oil

[monte.b]

I read in yesterdays courier mail a couple of people wrote into the Graham Smith column asking advice about the oil consumption in there new commodores ,like 5-7 ltrs between oil changes at 15000 intervals ,seems a lot of oil to me as ive never had to put extra oil in my bf ute since i bought it new anybody else heard about this problem.The reason im asking is my brother drives an old wb statesman ,had it for many years and is thinking of upgrading

[burnz]

comes down to how you run them in, all engine will do the same if not bedded properly.

[Cuyper]

Most engines use lots of oil when new, It depends if they are spun up to 8,000 rpm, during leak testing in the factory or not. I'd rather do it at home slowly myself.

[Watto_Cobra]

5 to 7 litres? That's like an oil change between oil changes. No, haven't heard any personal accounts of that yet.

My AU has never used a drop. FG neither except when I had the "timing chain cover bolts too long" leak.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rodge]

My Gen3 5.7 litre V8 used a fair bit of oil, not that much but that was a long time ago.
I have heard the little 3.6 uses a bit of oil but like you I'd be interested in how much. Perhaps one of the regular users of the Holden forums could shed some light or provide a link so we can all see what the Holden users are actually saying ? That way anyone on here that might be potentially holding a candle for a new VF might get their eye's opened.

[Peter B - CV8]

Holden's I have owned ;
-1997 VS Statesman with the 3.8 Ecotech motor. Was 6 months old, with 15,000 k's when I purchased it - never used any oil.
- 2004 Monaro with the LS1/5.7 motor. Purchased brand new - has never used any oil.
- (Son's) 2006 VE SV6 with the 3.8 litre Alloytec (I think). Was 2 years old, with 60,000 k's when he purchased it - doesn't use any oil.
Also previously had a Gemini (back in the late 70's) & a VL wagon (6 cylinder) in the 80's - neither used any oil.
Owned a fair few Fords as well - no oil usage problems.

To the OP, if your brother is looking at upgrading to an LS1 motor, try to get one with a build date from mid 2004 onwards (had revised piston/rings). But at the end of the day, if it hasn't been run in properly (ie bores glazed) - then it's going to consume oil.

[kempy311]

If I had owned a car using that much oil and it was still underwarraty I would want it fixed.

[flappist]

So we have all forgotten about the oil eating BA GTs.........

[Elements]

My housemate's SV6 ute (SIDI, ~80,000km) has to be topped up with oil 2-3 times between services. Oil level has even dropped below the dipstick once or twice... but you can't tell him there's anything wrong, because "it's an engine, they all use oil"...

Apparently there's something wrong with my FG (2011, 30,000km) because the oil level change between services is negligable... hahaha

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by flappist

So we have all forgotten about the oil eating BA GTs.........

...and they're not the only Ford V8's that like a little drink of the golden stuff from time to time.

[scottyg938]

My dad has a ve sv6 ute and hasn't had this problem at all

[Silver Ghia]

7 litres in 15,000kms, you'd be putting a litre in every 2,000kms. Certainly not a healthy motor at all, I'd be jumping up and down at the dealers.

Thats one thing with my FG, the oil level stays near the full mark right until the next service. But then I helped bed in the rings by not using the cruise control during the first 1000kms, also doing a few (not too hard) accelerations uphill during the first 50kms.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

7 litres in 15,000kms, you'd be putting a litre in every 2,000kms. Certainly not a healthy motor at all, I'd be jumping up and down at the dealers.

Thats one thing with my FG, the oil level stays near the full mark right until the next service. But then I helped bed in the rings by not using the cruise control during the first 1000kms, also doing a few (not too hard) accelerations uphill during the first 50kms.

this ^^^

Originally Posted by turbo4me

Buying a new fg xr6 soon, what is the recommendations for running it in?

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by Bushbasher

If you're running in/breaking in a new motor READ THIS.
Bushbasher

Thanks for that Bushbasher, that is the theory behind my post before, taking particular note that the rings must get bedded in during the early stages of the engine running. Which is why the bores are carefully honed at manufacture to allow this to happen. If they are let to glaze over say by running too gently, its too late to go back:

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

Thats one thing with my FG, the oil level stays near the full mark right until the next service. But then I helped bed in the rings by not using the cruise control during the first 1000kms, also doing a few (not too hard) accelerations uphill during the first 50kms.

Also, here I go with my thoughts:

Originally Posted by jpd80

I had a good long talk to a metalurgist about this and came away with
the same question he asked me, "What exactly are you running in?"

All the piston and ring clearances are set at the factory, they're as good
as they will ever be and the hone on the bores is only to assist seating
of compression and oil control rings which these says are all low tension
jobbies. So apart from setting the carbon seal on the top ring,
there's nothing to really "run in"...

The tolerances between the running parts like the bearing surfaces, cylinder bores and rings, also the surface finishes of these surfaces in a healthy running engine after having been run for a while, would never be able to be replicated during manufacture.

Certainly, engine parts these days are manufactured to much more accurate and tighter tolerances and better surface finishes, also the bearing etc. materials used, ensuring the mating parts match each other better when assembled, than they were years ago. Despite this, the assembled parts will still be somewhat 'tighter' than after they have been run for a while, the period this happens is the 'running in' period, where the part bearing surfaces will be 'matching' each other .

Same with the rings against the cylinder bores, they need to be 'bedded in' which machining will have no hope of doing. This can only be done when running the engine and pushing the rings against the bores by accelerating (as per bushbashers link), not too hard or for too long however, so to still look after those new bearing surfaces.

So during that period, some 'running in' is therefore still necessary, however with the modern manufacturing tolerances and surface finishes as mentioned, this may only need to be to take it easy (but still doing enough to bed in those rings), and not load up the engine too much say by driving in a too higher gear, and avoiding sustained high speed running.


During the running in process, manufacturers like Ford with the Falcon advise not to use synthetic oils too early, as they work too effectively and may prevent the rings from bedding into the cylinder bores, which the mineral oils allow.

And I also don't understand the logic of manufacturers advising not to change the oil until 15,000 kms, I changed mine the first time at 7,500kms, the condition of the oil at that time was such I was glad I did. I just wonder what an oil analysis would have showed.

[castellan]

You will not destroy a moden engine by giving it a floging !
You can buger it by pussiy footing it, that's for sure.
Cops flog the guts out of there cars from new.
Have heard of the VE 3.0L using oil.
If the rings were put in up side down it can use oil. a dud i know had 3 rings from factory in his HJ 308 up side down and this is why she use the oil you know.
If you take it easy with a new motor, you are a fool and do not know jack about what runing in is about at all.

[turbo4me]

Buying a new fg xr6 soon, what is the recommendations for running it in?

[Bushbasher]

Originally Posted by turbo4me

Buying a new fg xr6 soon, what is the recommendations for running it in?

If you're running in/breaking in a new motor READ THIS.


Bushbasher

[turbo4me]

Originally Posted by Bushbasher

If you're running in/breaking in a new motor READ THIS.


Bushbasher

A great read and makes a lot of sense. Thanks for that

[zilo]

Originally Posted by Bushbasher

If you're running in/breaking in a new motor READ THIS.


Bushbasher

thanks for the link...but I reckon he is full of it.

Might work for snowmobiles....

[RANGEREST]

Originally Posted by Bushbasher

If you're running in/breaking in a new motor READ THIS.


Bushbasher

I totally agree with this, have a look at a Bugatti Veyron, Maserati or pretty much any high end sports car for that matter, and every sports motorcycle I've ever seen, even Harley V rods, all get an absolute caning on a dyno before they've even left the factory and some even before the engines have been installed into the vehicle.

[jpblue1000]

Mercedes as an example state in the owners manual I have seen an expected acceptable oil consumption of 1/4 litre per 1000Km's. This doesn't mean the engines are poorly designed or built, it means they are designed with a different philosophy to the Japanese manufacturers and obviously some Australian 6's.
The larger design tollerances of the traditional Euros proving to aide longevity etc. The Japanese manufacture to Higher tolerances to get better specific outputs per litre, and their engines may not last as long.

As for running in, on most commuter cars driving as described earlier is enough, never holding load, never idling for too long. A performance engine is a different beast, thats why they are run in on engine dynos.
The idea is to push the rings into the bores through compression. the rings are shaped to allow combustion to expand them onto the bore walls.
Of course with consumer commuters how long has the engine idled on the production line, in the ques for the transporters and in the dealers forecourt before you get to do your 'run in'
Given most of these appliances will be turned over in 3 to 5 years why stress yourselves with these thoughts. An engine using an acceptable amount of oil as designed is nothing to worry about. Thi sis of course not suggesting the GM V6 doesnt have problems like their Gen whatever V8 or the other mentioned ford engines.

JP

[zilo]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

Mercedes as an example state in the owners manual I have seen an expected acceptable oil consumption of 1/4 litre per 1000Km's.

JP

My new vito has a 30,000k supposed service interval.

Holds 6 litres of oil.

Guess that means I better carry 10 litres in the cabin...cause it will use another 4 litres just to get to 30,000 and then will still need 6L to stay full.

[monte.b]

It was the alloytec v6 engine they were talking about ,not the v8 sorry if i confused you all

[olds]

1 litre per 5000 kms is normal

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by olds

1 litre per 5000 kms is normal

Link to www.ls1.com.au topic on this anyone ????

[M&Ms]

Have lady at work who serviced her car at 15,000. At 28,000, engine started making noises. She took it in to holden and it was almost completely empty of oil. She's hardly a leadfoot. This is in a series 2 sv6

[TC200six]

This does sound like a running in issue. Not all 3.6L V6s I've seen have bad oil consumption issues.

Although, I have seen a noisy one (VE) with a stretched timing chain. It was causing a fault code to appear and it did 35,000kms over a service interval.

[Giant Cranium]

i have a 2010 ve ute that i have put 90000ks on and it has not used 1 drop of oil. has been the most reliable car i have had.

[olds]

A properly designed engine needs to have some oil by pass the rings to lubricate the top part of he cylinder or excessive upper cylinder wear will occur . The trick is to get he amount correct . The run in can have a lot to do with the outcome . a practice which has been lost with the mechanically uneducated .

[music189]

Lucky non of you blokes own a late VW or BMW they chew through oil between services and its classed as normal.
Plenty of talk about it with the current VW problems

I can remember reading something about late Commodores using oil but can't remember where
My Terri has used .5 of a litre of oil once between services and its up at 85000 now