"What's that sound"!?

[AlCan]

Hi Guys,

Asking this question reminded me of an old song. It's actually called "For What It's Worth" - it's a truly timeless classic. All the old timers will remember it, and it seems to me just as relevant now as then. When they knew how to create great music (if not such great cars.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80_39eAx3z8

Anyway, FWIW, I recorded the (overnight) cold start sound of the troubled (almost) teenager - the 2013 I've discussed here at great length. I'm sure the experienced mechanics here will recognise this sound immediately. I suspect it's Big Ends, but would love a more experienced ear's take.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/11aT...dCGOANg7K/view

As you'll hear, there are four distinct sounds: Starter Motor, a couple or so deep, well-fueled diesel combustions, followed by a few sharp rattling sounds which quickly go away. Those are the sounds I'm interested in.

Then, for most of the rest of the recording, at a much lower volume, you'll hear the notorious Cam Chain Rattle which also fades away near the end.

I'd love your comments on this, as my Oil Pressure fittings apparently caught the slow boat from China.

Assuming this is big ends, question is, How Bad?

[Mondaveo]

I've no expertise to offer on the engine sound, but gracious me if you've just me realise my car is a teenager

[AlCan]

Yeah, time flies when you're having fun. As my wife and I keep telling ourselves...

FWIW (again) the car in question is also a Panther Black Metallic Wagon, but just an LX model. Funny, the thing that car really made me realise is just how many Black cars there are on the road over here. Back in the day, white was the colour, then grey (silver).

[NZ XR6]

Yes, you can hear a knock just after the engine fires. Was that a cold start? Does the same noise occur during a hot start?

The oil pressure light on mine takes maybe a second to go out from cold and is slightly noisy, which I'd consider normal. But nothing like the knock you hear.

It seems like a lack of oil pressure rather than a failed bearing, as it goes away quickly. Is there any knocking under load?






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[AlCan]

Originally Posted by NZ XR6

Yes, you can hear a knock just after the engine fires. Was that a cold start? Does the same noise occur during a hot start?The oil pressure light on mine takes maybe a second to go out from cold and is slightly noisy, which I'd consider normal. But nothing like the knock you hear.It seems like a lack of oil pressure rather than a failed bearing, as it goes away quickly. Is there any knocking under load?Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

Good morning NZ XR6,

Thanks, yes, that was a cold start, after sitting overnight. I haven't paid attention to its hot start behaviour, but will take notice today. My Oil Pressure light probably takes a couple of seconds to go out during a cold start.

No, it doesn't make any knocking sounds the rest of the time, idling or under load. There is a slight whistling whine sound, which the other car doesn't make - in time with the engine RPMs, but may be from the clutches I guess. This engine has more vibration than the other at lower RPM under load, but I guess that could also be from the clutch assembly.

I don't think it's a completely failed bearing (yet! ), but more like all bearings worn from earlier lack of maintenance. I'm just wondering how long it might last, but maybe that's 'a piece of string' question.

Have some oil pressure adapter fittings on order, but they are taking much longer than normal. Always the way. The non-urgent stuff is already here.

[NZ XR6]

It could be worth doing another oil change after a few hundred km, as the fresh oil should have cleaned out any gunge that has built up in the engine.

Unfortunately you can't tell how dirty oil in a diesel has become as it turns black so quickly!

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[AlanM]

Vibrations are very possibly the engine mount. The condition of the big (expensive) one on the driver's side makes a huge difference in terms of Vibration.

[AlCan]

Good point, AlanM! Many thanks.

I took a look at the mount, which seems to be okay. It has about 8mm or so of (vertical) clearance between the bottom of the "tank" and the mounting bracket below it, and no sign of leaks so I think the mount itself is ok.

Then I remembered that when I changed the engine oil, discovered that the lower / rear mount had scrape marks from taking a good hit at some stage. Tarseal was jammed into the bracket and between the mount and the cross member. Cleaned it all out at the time but didn't think too much more about it.

Maybe that hit has pushed the cross member back a bit and put all the mountings out of alignment. Took one of the chassis bolts out of the top engine mount bracket to see where the mount was sitting relative to the bolt. Almost as far back as it would go. Undid the other and pushed the bracket right back and retightened.

It has changed and improved the problem. I'd say that cross member must be bent, as now, there is generally much less vibration until you put your foot down harder. Then, guess the engine moves more and the hole in the bottom of the tank connects with the bottom post - and voila, much vibration. Back off a bit and it goes away.

Another thing to sort out. Thanks again for the tip.

[AlCan]

Originally Posted by NZ XR6

Unfortunately you can't tell how dirty oil in a diesel has become as it turns black so quickly!

Haha! Indeed.

I know this is not PC anymore... But this car is definitely female!

Nearly every week, she wakes up in a different mood. Seems to be a trainee mechanic's wet dream! I think I'll have to call her My Training Wheels!

I'm hoping that fixing the engine mount might change that startup noise, but that might be wishful thinking. Anyway...

Maybe I should post this to the other thread, but as of more than a week now, she hasn't had a single 3rd-1st changedown. All I've done since the last one is change my driving style slightly. Now tend to brake a bit later and a bit harder - no dawdling decels - and she seems to like it. Likes to be shown who's the boss or something...

Anyway, over the last two or three days, she's in a different mood. Now, she 'coughs' on acceleration when cold. Like the power "cuts" she was having before I disabled the EGR. Will have to do more logging.

And just this afternoon. Started 'er up and the square [i] light was on - Green. Thought there was a couple of bings but was busy and didn't see any message flick past. But on the road, quickly found she was in limp mode. Over, Off/Restart, all happy again.

Haven't looked for DTCs, didn't have the dongle at the time... The saga continues. I'm guessing she's had some of these problems for a long time.

[NZ XR6]

Hmm, not sure I'd persevere with it. There may be more to the issues you're experiencing than just neglected maintenance.

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[AlCan]

Thanks NZ XR6,

I agree that some of the problems might be one or more actual faults rather than excess wear, but that's half the fun! I'm not ready to give up, I'm learning so much. Hopefully, it won't go on too long though. Might have better things to do soon.

Anyway, the latest problem is the dreaded TLF - Transmission Limited Function. This is brought on by the 'coughs' I thought she was having, but my latest observations suggest something completely different. It seems to be another clutch slip issue, and maybe the Adaptations since the recent Clutch Learn are behind it. What seems to happen is that (mostly following a change up), the clutch pressure seems to cycle for a few seconds, and at the low points, it starts to slip. Instead of reducing engine power as in the other case, the trans seems to whack up the clutch pressure and the clutch suddenly bites hard. It feels like a cough, but I think so far that it isn't. I'm guessing this behaviour is what some have called "shunting", and that may be a fair description.

I've captured the DTCs and some PID traces but haven't had a chance to look too closely yet. FORScan doesn't display enough lines at once so hacking a spreadsheet for that. That should be revealing.

My next plan is to drain the trans oil, pull the cover and maybe the Mech Unit and take a look. Will have a search, but any tips would be great.

AlanM, if you're about - have you tried replacing the sump filter, and was it successful? I'm worried that the heating and deforming may actually damage the filter membrane.