Mondeo 2011 Turbo Diesel lack of power - Page 3

JustBill · Today, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

The chain coloured links can be a bit of a distraction, the main requirements are - as you say - for the belt timing points to be lined up and crank bolt “FT” with thread locker, and the chain sprockets to be synchronised. If they’re out of sync now it’s probably due to the interference event which broke the rockers.

On the cam driven by the timing belt, I’m fairly sure both the belt pulley and chain sprocket are positively keyed; they cannot rotate.

The FAI brand rockers used to be a good aftermarket part for these situations, it may be they’re either much dearer or unavailable now.

Note on the crank bolt. Its torque is given in Nm only, which suggests to me the “always fit a new bolt” rule is driven by thread lock paste or granules pre-coated onto the bolt. If it were a TTY bolt it would have a preload torque plus degrees cited.

Breaking bolts or damaging threads on removal is usually the result of people not having the patience to walk the thread in and out, loosening it progressively.

Gotcha

Re Cam bolt, i've been watching Allan Howatt videos a lot. He reuses the cam bolt.

This is where i am at now.
-Flywheel locked in position.
-8 New rockers placed
-the area cleaned from rocker metal fragments.

Next Stage
-Fit the 2 cams with chain in correct position as per the diagram in my previous post (mark on intake cam pointing 12 oclock - mark on exhaust cam pointing 11 oclock)
-Place the cam belt sprocket in correct position making sure the hole in the sprocket lines up with hole on the engine.
-Place the timing belt and tensioner back on.
-Then remove the pins and by hand spin the crank 2 rotations and check if both flywheel and cam pully both line up again and able to pin them again.
All this before putting the rocker cover on making sure the marks on the cam sprockets also still line up at 12 oclock and 11 oclock. At the same time making sure nothing is hitting the rockers or valves while spinning. Any resistance or knocking sound while hand spinning would be a warning sign i don't have things right.

Make or break time..... Literally

Citroënbender · Today, 12:37 PM

I’m relieved it’s coming together. Be sure to hit that torque - with thread locker - before your test turnings-over.

We did some bolts yesterday on a truck head that were 59Nm plus 90° plus 180°. It’s disconcerting to both consider how far you’re twisting it and how tight it’s getting - but evidently parts are designed to take the stresses. You should “overpull” slightly on the 60° as the bolt will naturally spring back.

Citroënbender · Today, 01:12 PM

Also, are you sure the rockers which didn’t break, aren’t fractured? It’d be disappointing to find out later.

JustBill · Today, 03:30 PM

No thats it. I quit. 4 weeks of killing my self pulling things apart and lots of money spent, i quit.

I put it all together, try spinning it 2 revolutions but turns only 1/4 and locks up. The cam spins independantly as many times you like, so does the crank. but put them on the belt 1/4 turn. These have been up there with the worst period of my life.

Thank you citroenbender and the rest of you for giving me your precious time.
i can never repay yous for what youre worth.

**aussiblue** · Today, 05:34 PM

Sounds like you have the timing wrong and a piston is hitting a valve or two. Did you rotate the engine at all when when the belt and or chain was off? Have you check the piston position at number 1 cylinder at TDC?

What city and state are you in? Somebody on the forum more knowledgeable may be prepared to visit and have a look over the engine for you.

goz007 · Today, 05:47 PM

I'm thinking 1 of 3 things, either u have a bent valve,but after breaking 8 rockers I'm doubting that's the issue.(Do the valves all look to be moving when u are turning the cams & when u come to the back of the cam lobes do u have correct clearance s for each valve-tight valve lash is very bad as it will make the valve hang, better off lose than tight) 2/ possible that there is a machining difference from old rockers to new & valve lash is to tight making a valve hang & catch a piston....I'm also doubting this 3/ the timing is still out....& This is what I'm putting my money on, I believe that u have pinned the flywheel on No4 tdc & cams are@ No1 tdc.....keep going u are soooo close & we are all happy to help u get there.

**aussiblue** · Today, 06:07 PM

Another of the many possibilities perhaps: broken or incorrectly adjusted timing chain tensioner preventing the chain freely turning? Like the one here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jLzRoDQdyo&t=186s

**aussiblue** · Today, 06:44 PM

If you have not already done so, it would be worth downloading the factory workshop manual PDF from https://easymanuals.co.uk/ (best) or even one of the ebay resellers (e.g https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/30563927....c100667.m2042) There is a lot of useful info in the that will help you diagnose your issue and check everything is correctly (re) installed.

JustBill · Today, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aussiblue

Sounds like you have the timing wrong and a piston is hitting a valve or two. Did you rotate the engine at all when when the belt and or chain was off? Have you check the piston position at number 1 cylinder at TDC?

What city and state are you in? Somebody on the forum more knowledgeable may be prepared to visit and have a look over the engine for you.

Hi aussiblue im in Melbourne Victoria. Wallan to be exact.

I would have rotated the engine once or twice with the belt off, but always went back to locking the flywheel and pinning the cam cog to its timing position.

I have a thought (but none of my thoughts have worked out) but my thought is going back to one of my posts where i said when undoing the crank bolt on one particular occasion (can't remember why) the flywheel was locked and i used the extension bar with a 1 meter steel pipe for e extra extension and leverage..... The bolt together with the crank cog spun anti clockwise but the pin in the flywheel was still intact. I'm stating to wonder now is the opposite end of the crank bolted onto the flywheel and that back end is now out of position to the flywheel, meaning that hole in the flywheel is no longer the timing position 1 cylinder not in TDC. Or is the crank and flywheel one piece and not possible to spin independently.

**aussiblue** · Today, 06:53 PM

Quote:

I would have rotated the engine once or twice with the belt off, but always went back to locking the flywheel and pinning the cam cog to its timing position.

Never a good idea; it might then be 180 degrees out as I think they pass those timing marks twice on an engine revolution and only one is right.

What scan tool are you using? In any event, it might be better to use the windows version Forscan on a laptop https://forscan.org/download.html and one of the two recommended dongles per that link https://www.obdlink.com/products/obd...x/?ref=forscan or https://www.amazon.com/dp/B094Z7PBLS

Note that I am definitely not a Mondeo expert and have actually never owned or worked extensively on one or on this engine so I am just speaking from my general, though perhaps reasonably extensive, mechanical experience albeit mostly with Falcons and Valiants and the like. Another disclaimer; at 71 I am also starting to forget things and are now more prone to making mistakes when relying on my memory.

**aussiblue** · Today, 07:17 PM

Also see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBs1FLVyxdk after the 21 minute mark; the cog can spin on the camshaft. Bur not being at TDC with the marks aligned suggest the 180 degrees out is the more likely scenario.

goz007 · Today, 07:46 PM

It's strange, I've just spent some time looking through the engine manual here(not sure if it's the complete manual) but a few things I noticed is that the crankshaft gear & cam gear both seem to have keyways & there's no call for feeler gauges or valve clearances, so I really feel now that engine timing is still incorrect....so time to release the cams, repin the crank & have anthor go to rest the cams, but I'm also concerned now as the H.P pump is also timed to the back of the cam to tdc1...I'm going to look into the manuals Blue has mentioned & see what I can find, I also have a mate who works@Ford & I'll go & pester him next week & see if I can look@his manual's. But other than that I to don't have a lot of knowledge of this engine.

JustBill · Today, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goz007

It's strange, I've just spent some time looking through the engine manual here(not sure if it's the complete manual) but a few things I noticed is that the crankshaft gear & cam gear both seem to have keyways & there's no call for feeler gauges or valve clearances, so I really feel now that engine timing is still incorrect....so time to release the cams, repin the crank & have anthor go to rest the cams, but I'm also concerned now as the H.P pump is also timed to the back of the cam to tdc1...I'm going to look into the manuals Blue has mentioned & see what I can find, I also have a mate who works@Ford & I'll go & pester him next week & see if I can look@his manual's. But other than that I to don't have a lot of knowledge of this engine.

You really going to do all that for me? reading the manual and going to pester your friend? wow mate you give me hope that society isn't in that much trouble as i first thought. There are still good people in this world. Because of this undeserved favor you are giving me i can't just sit back and give up now, i must press on.

I have released the cams, repined the crank & flywheel just today. But ill have another go to rest the cam.

JustBill · Today, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aussiblue

Never a good idea; it might then be 180 degrees out as I think they pass those timing marks twice on an engine revolution and only one is right.

What scan tool are you using? In any event, it might be better to use the windows version Forscan on a laptop https://forscan.org/download.html and one of the two recommended dongles per that link https://www.obdlink.com/products/obd...x/?ref=forscan or https://www.amazon.com/dp/B094Z7PBLS

Note that I am definitely not a Mondeo expert and have actually never owned or worked extensively on one or on this engine so I am just speaking from my general, though perhaps reasonably extensive, mechanical experience albeit mostly with Falcons and Valiants and the like. Another disclaimer; at 71 I am also starting to forget things and are now more prone to making mistakes when relying on my memory.

I think you are doing great Aussie, i'm 55 and you are much brighter and more alert than me.

goz007 · Today, 08:16 PM

Just watched the utube that blue linked & appears there's no keyways......

**aussiblue** · Today, 08:34 PM

I also wonder if the share this issue from the PSA derived engine: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/dyccm9kM0JA

JustBill · Today, 08:56 PM

Here is a video i did which i think was before smashing the rockers. My intention for recording it was to show Allan.

I followed Allans instructions on changing the timing belt (The second youtube video link from 2minute mark onwards).

notice near the end how i had to turn the cam pully anti clockwise to line up the holes. Why anti clockwise? because just like now, it wouldnt spin clockwise just locked up. And that was without the belt attached. Now it spins clockwise without the belt but won't spin more than 1/4 with the belt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJ2KrPmTRZk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWkT...dD6A74IVh2RzKf

**aussiblue** · Today, 09:17 PM

Also see https://www.talkford.com/threads/for...m-help.388487/ did you have it locked on both the front and rear holes and are you sure they were the correct holes and number 1 piston was at or close to TDC?

JustBill · Today, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aussiblue

Also see https://www.talkford.com/threads/for...m-help.388487/ did you have it locked on both the front and rear holes and are you sure they were the correct holes and number 1 piston was at or close to TDC?

"Flywheel on auto is solid and the hole is drilled in the plate so this can be used to lock the crank, but there are two important things to consider:
1. Pin can easily slot into one of holes for the torque converter bolts misaligning the crank
2. Pin will be difficult to install into the locking hole due to very tight tolerances and rust".

Possibly this is where i'm going wrong. Pin is slotting into one of the holes for the torque converter bolts and i'm mistakenly thinking its in the proper hole in the plate.